"Best Rules for the Period 1890's - 1945" Topic

Another day; another "Which Rules" thread graces the naval forums of TMP. After months upon months of consideration, I've finally pulled the trigger on getting onto the high seas in wargaming with a humble order for Troubridge's armored cruisers plus the Goeben and Breslau.

Now while after looking into potential rules sets for gaming relatively small actions such as the pursuit of the Goeben and decided on using Fleet Action Imminent, it only naturally passes that I start contemplating Pre-Dreadnoughts and the War in the Pacific just before I pull the trigger on the rules as well. Operating on a students shoe string, I thought it perhaps for the better to decide on a more 'universal' system that could game this extended period as a whole (though WW1 and WW2 would be more important), if such a system also possessed a goodly amount of detail (probably wouldn't want to go much below FAI, I'd be perfectly fine with a good simulationist set as well), and most critically of, was CHEAP. I'd be fine with getting a variety of General Quarters rules if it still ended up being a cheaper end result.

Now the biggest criticism I see leveled at all these universal sets, be they Naval Thunder or Black Powder, is of course lack of period chrome. Is there any such mythical set that can game this period (or at least ww1/ww2) to a good degree of detail (read: around at least FAI), and is cheap?

And on an entirely, completely unrelated note which I shall append here for the sake of not creating two topics, are there any good tutorials out there for superdetailing 1/2400 ships?

I waited in vain for years for a pre-dreadnought GQ3/FAI variant, but L.L. Gill has said in a few different forums that he'll never make one (himself). I still think the basic GQ3 system is an excellent framework for providing the necessary detail and uniqueness of the pre-dreadnought period without bogging players down in rosters and charts. I go back to tinkering with that idea myself once in a while, but it's a HUGE project. There was actually a considerable amount of research that went into GQ3 and FAI, and the preceding period deserves the same treatment.

It's actually pretty easy to make a pre-dreadnought version of GQ2, like this one: link However, I don't think the GQ2 system works very well. The odds-ratio style of combat doesn't impart much of the feel of the period.

You should probably try Naval Thunder. It's pretty easy to learn, not terribly complicated, and pretty popular. I think it's also pretty easy to bolt on house rules. I don't personally like NT much, but I'm a middle-aged curmudgeon so you should take my opinion with a bucket of sea salt. You might like NT just fine.

There is Seekrieg V, which is much less popular, WAY more complicated, and pretty slow to play, but covers 1880-1945. And after that rousing endorsement, you're probably not the least bit stoked…. Seriously, though, there are "rivet counter" types that love that game, and if you like detail you might as well. Think of Seekrieg as the ASL of naval gaming, if that analogy means anything to you… If you just have to know that a 12" shell penetrated the deck armor at a -17° angle, exploded in the mess, knocked down the admiral's painting of the Queen and chipped his best china serving bowl, you'll like Seekrieg.

Clash of Arms did the games "Harpoon" (modern), "Command at Sea" (WWII), "Fear God and Dread Nought" (WWI), and "Dawn of the Rising Sun" (RJW), each of which covers one period as a separate game. It's a board game system, but I'm told it's adaptable to miniatures. Most people think it's too slow and fiddly to make a good game (like Seekrieg) so it might be hard to find players, and it's also expensive. Look for a used copy of one of the games and see what you think. Even if you don't like rules, the games are chock full of excellent background information you can use to develop your own house rules for other games. I bought the RJW game for exactly this purpose.

New this year is a set of rules I have yet to see, called Fleet Admiral. So far only Volume I is out, covering the period 1890-1924. I can't say any more about it than that. Here's the web site: fleetadmirals.com However, that web site seems to be down. :-(

- Ix

PS: Here's David Manley's review of Fleet Admiral Vol I: link

- Ix

I can't comment on best, although A&A produces some pretty solid rule sets in general, but there is "Stations Manned and Ready", covering 1885-1945, and "Sea Wars Fleet Actions" covering 1890-1945:

link

They also have rule sets that fall within the time period but are more specific to an era (e.g. pre-dreads).

Last I heard, Fleet Admiral was picked up by Clash of Arms (the Command at Sea, Fear God and Dread Naught guys) as some sort of entry, or intermediate level system for their rules.

If you want a lot of detail and a very low price (free) try Seas of War. It may be in your wheelhouse.
link

Thank you for all the suggestions so far! It has been brought to my attention that Seekrieg 4 is also free; a competitive price. I'll run a solo game or two once the navy arrives to get a feel for the system, but how does Seekrieg 4 compare to 5- or to other free systems like Seas of War?

You didn't miss it, QC. I just checked and it ain't there. If Ed intends to sell it, it might help to list it (although $71 USD seems a bit steep).