"Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?" Topic

Hi all,

I have a question…….

Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery? Note: Especially the Artillery Crews?:

British 7pdr gun with four crew firing gun.

British 7pdr gun with four crew aiming gun.

Artillery battery commander with pocket watch and Martini carbine-armed bombardier.

I'd be very happy to hear of anything pertaining to the above question about the Artillery and the Second Afghan War :)

Cheers,
Darrell.

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Check out this guys blog….. Some nice pieces which may answer your question Darrell

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Nice figures…who's the manufacturer???

Whilst the 7lb 'screw gun' was used by the RA 6/8th (Mountain). The uniforms of the crew, especially the trousers are different to those for these figures which are AZ war. I would expect putees and 'covered' helmets to be worn for the Afghan War. I seem to recall photos of the AZ covered helmets having a much 'tighter' cover than those in the 2nd Afghan War! However having said that I wouldn't worry too much about it so long as you paint them in the right colours only pedants would worry about the relatively minor differences!

Empress Zulu war? I think…..

They are Empress Zulu War. I have used them for the 2nd Afghan War and just painted them in Khaki.Don't know if the uniforms are correct or not but it works for me.

The short answer is "yes", as some British artillery crews were photographed in Afghanistan wearing those uniforms, without puttees. I will try to post a longer & more elaborate reply with some illustrations when I can. Right now I'm in my car taking 2 of my 3 kids to the San Diego Comicon, so somewhat indisposed!

Only thing I'll add now is that the Australian company Castaway Arts sells a very nice c.1880 British artillery crew wearing puttees and short tunics that are a good match for the RHA battery at Maiwand.

I agree with Rhingyll. His figures look terrific in 'kharki.' I never would have paid attention to (or been aware of ) any minor differences in uniform details.

Mad Guru: Do you have links to the photos without Puttees, I'm always interested in getting as much info as possible?

These are Foundry Boer War artillerymen that I have had for quite awhile. The figure on the right could be fairly easily given a ramrod for use as a muzzle loader. The figure with the shell doesn't have to be used.

Great minds do think alike, if I don't say so myself!

Rhingyll, I have a battery's worth of those same Wargames Foundry Boer War artillery crew figures for use in the Second Afghan War -- and have in fact converted several of them, placing ramrods in their hands for use serving muzzle-loaders. I will post pics of them, as well as pics of my Castaway Arts artillery crew figures, and -- for Drumcharry -- I'll try to post the one or two contemporary photos I was referring to. I'd do it right now, but the internet connection I have here in our San Diego motel is simply not up to the task.

But to Darrell's original question, for service in Afghanistan you could paint those Empress figures up all in blue or all in khaki, or perhaps in a mixture of the two, though mixed look is not evident in any contemporary photos of British artillery crews during the war that I know of.

Another very useful source of Second Afghan War British artillery is the Perry Miniatures Sudan range Screw-Gun set, which comes with a British crew wearing puttees. The only detail you could adjust if you want to be very picky is the goggles the officer wears up on his helmet, since they were specially issued for use in the desert of Sudan, but that of course is entirely up to you. Other than that, the figures are perfect to play the role of British Mountain Gun batteries, several of which served throughout the Second Afghan War.

I'm going to give it a shot and try posting pics of some figures right now…

Pictures of converted Wargames Foundry Boer War artillery crewmen:

Pictures of Castaway Arts artillery crew (first one includes a converted Wargames Foundry officer in pillbox cap):

Mad Guru,

Many many thanks. I'll get on to the Castaway Arts website now and check out the mini's. I've already been through the Foundry Boar War cat. and there seems to be plenty to go on in terms of guns and carriages etc. as well as crew.

Thanks,
Darrell.

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The Minifig 25 mm British gun crew actually look ok. I use the Minifig drivers and limber riders without any problems.

You are very welcome, Darrell!

Just got back home from San Diego Comicon with my daughters, who both had a wonderful time -- but as it is just barely still July 27th -- MAIWAND DAY -- I am going to scramble to fill in the blanks from my previous post before the clock strikes twelve-midnight…

First, here's the pic I mentioned in my earlier post that didn't show up above, featuring … the Castaway Arts artillery crew plus a converted Wargames Foundry RHA officer in pillbox cap…

And another…

Here's some pics from the midst of a game showing my Foundry Boer War artillery crew poised a bit too close to the muzzles of their guns as they fire, and also poised to problematically load shells down those same muzzles…

Here's a pic of the very nicely sculpted Perry British Screw-gun and crew from their Sudan range…

And a link to the appropriate page on their site…

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FInally, for Drumcharry, here's the Second Afghan War photo I was referring to, as well as a couple of others…

Royal Artillery Gatling gun detachment, wearing blue home service dress…

Another RA unit, serving muzzle-loading field pieces, also dressed in what appear to be blue uniforms…

And lastly, "G" Battery, 3rd Brigade Royal Artillery, in khaki, with short tunics similar to those worn by the RHA at Maiwand, and also the Castaway Arts British colonial artillery figures on display in my previous post…

Here's a sample pic from the Castaway Arts site, and a handy LINK to their site, where you can click on "British Colonial Army" to find their very nice artillery crew figures…

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Whew!!! Glad I managed to get this done before the page closed on July 27th 2014, Maiwand Day +134.

Once again I must thank you for your brilliantly elucidating answers to my question Mad Guru. I have taken notes and will certainly be taking your advice.

BTW, have you seen the new (and growing) NWF range from Artizan Designs?

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I'm reasonably sure that the mini's will be available from Brigade Games in the US as well as North Star in the UK and Europe.

Cheers,
Darrell.

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Very Interesting photos MG. I found the G battery photo yesterday too but 'flipped' facing the other way :D
Maybe the blue uniforms are the same as the AZ war ones? Which would both make sense and make life a lot easier!
Do you think it's likely that these were changed out for 'Khaki' after the RA entered theatre or whether there were variations in uniforms at the same time?

Drumcharry, I believe the bottom photo showing the artillerymen in khaki was taken after the battle of Peiwar Kotal, which was one of the very first actions of the war. Almost all British units involved already had some form of khaki uniform when they first arrived in Afghanistan, though as mentioned earlier in this thread there were a couple -- including the 59th -- who are on record wearing only worn red throughout the early stages of the war.

Most British units took both sets of uniforms with them to Afghanistan. The main reason was the weather -- the red and blue (and perhaps green for the 60th Rifles who also served there) home service dress/"dress" uniforms were much warmer than the white "fatigue" dress dyed khaki at the regimental level, so were useful during the cold months in Afghanistan. There are records of some units wearing their warmer "full color" unforms under their khaki ones when fighting during the Winter.

The other use was for "formal" occassions, such as when Amir Yaqub Khan signed the Treaty of Gandamak ending the first phase of the war in May 1879. The British regiments present wore their "dress" uniforms. I've also read that when General Roberts and his army arrived at Kabul after the massacre of Cavagnari and his escort, they marched into the city wearing their red and blue uniforms, for "moral" (today we might say "psychological") effect.

And yes, I do think the blue artillery uniforms are virtually identical to those worn during the Anglo-Zulu War.

Darrell, yes I certainly have seen the new Artizan NWF/Second Afghan War figures, and I think they look very good. The only super nit-picky issue is the helmet straps, which I believe should lie diagonally up across the helmet front, rather than straight across its lower lip. The way they look on the figures is the way they appear in photos of British troops from the 1890s through the Second Boer War. I may be wrong, as most photos show troops wearing their brass chin-chains, but I believe I have seen one or two with the simple leather strap also worn that way. It detached on one side and was "hooked" onto the other side of the helmet across the front. But no big deal, either to leave it as is, or remove and replace with a diagonal one.

Doc Ord,

I agree with you! The old Minifigs artillery figures are not bad at all. I still have some of their old Hinchcliffe contemporaries, which I've owned since I was a boy, and still use occassionally when I need additional Gatling guns or field pieces.

The Empress artillery works very well for the 2nd AW. I have a battery of 9pdrs in my army. I chose to paint the trousers as home service and the headgear as without cover, because that's what the casting dictates. But as Madguru has shown, the mix of blue trousers and khaki jacket was common enough in the campaign

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The more I look into the uniforms that were worn by the British troops in the 2nd Afghan War the more I am beginning to realize that there are many options with the miniature manufacturer's different figures and also some overlapping of uniforms as changes came about. Just when I think I have in mind the way I think most accurately portrays the troops (or sometimes because I just like the figures and/or uniforms)something comes along that throws me.The latest of which is titled "92nd Highlander in Afghanistan 1879 Painted from life". It looks like he has a red jacket on and he looks cold like its the winter of 1879. If it truly was painted from life it would seem that even the Highlanders may have been wearing red coats.

Eclaireur, I really like the blue trouser look. I think I might repaint mine the same way.They look very campaign-like.

Thanks @Rhingyll their battery commander is entirely in home service blue. I imagine them as pukka RHA types who can't bring themselves to go entirely khaki!
EC

After seeing the work of others on this thread and some of the photos of actual artillerymen that were posted I have repainted the Empress Artillerymen that I had. The uniforms before were just to clean looking and I really liked Eclaireur's RHA in blue trousers. So I gave mine blue trousers now and dusted them with a light grey pastel powder that I got from using sandpaper on a pastel chalk.I hope I am not going to think I have to give all the troops a dusty look now.

Whoa -- Rhingyll -- that's freakin' AWESOME!!!!!

Great job! I hate to say this but you may want to consider spreading your "pastel dust" across the length and breadth of your armies. It just looks that good.

Have to say I think this thread is a great example of how wonderfully useful TMP can be.

Have to say I think this thread is a great example of how wonderfully useful TMP can be.

Yep, well said Mad Guru!

Hang on a minute, isn't that what TMP is supposed to be for :>)

Darrell.

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Oh, forgot to say (again, thank you all for your help- it was and is very much appreciated.

Darrell.

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