"Angel Barracks Signing Off" Topic

Hi.

Just a quick note to say a massive thanks to those of you that have purchased my stuff over the years, and even greater thanks to those that shared with others what you bought.

You folks on TMP have been kind to me and your moral and financial support is very much appreciated.

I am leaving now.

You can stay in touch through my own 6mm sci-fi forum should you wish.

angelbarracks.co.uk/forum

Size Matters!

What?!?!

Well, at least you're not leaving the industry!

Ciao!

????????????????????????????

Sorry it's come to this, AB. Good luck and more power to your sculpting elbow. (oh, and leave the door open on your way out…)

You would be missed Angel.

Best of luck with your good products.

Amicalement
Armand

I wish you would not leave, I find your posts interesting and 6mm rocks as a scale.

Size Matters!

Hate to see you go, and cannot comprehend why you would.

Doug

"cannot comprehend why you would"

He is currently the subject of some rather abusive comments on another board by none other than the Editor of this website(!)

I've enjoyed reading his thoughts on here over the last while, and he's never been anything other than civil – a real shame!

Which board? Can you link to the conversation?

Angel Barracks is one of the good guys IMHO – never understood how he gathered so many Stifles. Polite, reasonable, helpful, generous of his time and his gaming contributions.

I wish you well.

Yes, I agree 100%. It is a dark day for TMP to see him go…

Logain its this conversation
TMP link

Sorry to hear your leaving. Thanks for your help solving a order problem a year back or so.

Best of luck

Very sorry to hear your leaving too. Enjoyed your comments. All the best

I just want to come here to talk about miniatures. Why instead does it seem that every few weeks the place is riven with drama?

And now one of my top three manufacturers is leaving over it?

There are miniatures forums where the majority of posters are adolescents that are less drama filled than the TMP!

This sad news. Sorry Angel that it came to this. Maybe a week or two to think, drink funny juice and you could make a glorious return. Like Ric Flair the wrestler. yell "wooo, wooo"

seriously--this is not eh TMP I have lurked on for years and just made the plunge a year ago.

cooler heads. This is a brotherhood. no matter where we are these are my brothers I look forward to see posts---yes even you Tango. Kidding-awkward smile.

Logain its this conversation
TMP link

whoa, say what?!?

Lemme get this straight…
Anyone who has ever posted on Frothers is [unprintable], etc, and should be forcibly removed from all forms of polite society?

Someone using those words to describe any female (even Maggie Thatcher or Hillary Clinton) in my presence will quite quickly be forcibly evicted from polite society.

But everyone who has ever posted there?!? Seriously?

Frack, have *I* ever posted on Frothers? I don't think so, but there have been a few places that I used to post and don't remember anymore…

Angel Barracks is one of the good guys IMHO – never understood how he gathered so many Stifles. Polite, reasonable, helpful, generous of his time and his gaming contributions.

Indeed. If Bill's running a guilt by association round up we all could be in trouble. I've spent time on Frothers before, should I be packing? (Packing as in bags, for the US audience)

The whole thing is just being handled so unprofessionally by The Editor. Just go read his interview with editor Claire (link), nobody with a calm head would be directly addressing a bunch of rumors and insults like that. Instead of ignoring a bunch of trolls he is now persecuting people for posting on the same forum!

Good people have left and the trolls now know they have an easy mark.

Angel Barracks is one of the good guys IMHO – never understood how he gathered so many Stifles. Polite, reasonable, helpful, generous of his time and his gaming contributions.

100 times this. I've made a small order in support. This:

You can't be hanging out at Frothers without some of the filth clinging to you.

was unwarrented.

Bill what you said to Angel Barracks is wrong. Yes Frothers is full of terrible people, but whether AB actively supported them and agreed with them, as in saying that yes all you say about Bill and TMP is right, is a empirical question eh no? Not something to assume.

AB wish you would stay, please keep us infomed on Tac Cmd …

It's unfortunate that defaming/libeling/cyber-bullying somebody is so easy in our day and age of social networking. I don't know whether The Editor overreacted in this particular instance, but Bill had to stand up for his Philippina assistant editors against such unwarranted attacks motivated by nothing other than blatant sexism. Bill's hiring of a few young women from the Philippines who just happens to be cute leads to certain preconceived notions and ideas here on TMP, I understand that may be inevitable in an 'Old Boy's Club' like ours. But keep your prejudices to yourselves please. How Claire looks is irrelevant from her job description on TMP. She just might surprise you. Peace.

We'll miss you, AB!

No, 28mm Fanatik, Bill did not need to do anything but ignore a bunch of idiots on another forum trying to get him angry.

If it wasn't for Bill's overreaction pretty much no one would know about these accusations in the first place. To address them in the way he did is absolutely bizarre.

Given Bill was visiting Frothers and engaging the trolls it is pretty obvious he is making it personal and not just defending his employees.

And now that Bill has revealed to the trolls that he is an easy mark we can look forward to many more months of this.

Well that's all a bit pathetic.

AB, I'll stay in touch, sorry you feel forced out of this community.

I hear you Quaker, but maybe Bill knows exactly what he is doing all along and is serving notice that TMP members who viciously attack his 'family' on this or other forums have no place here and should be weeded out. He can't force us to leave but he can make it unpleasant for us to stay.

It's one thing to curbstomp those that attack your family.

But to libel AB as being guilty simply by having posted on Frothers?

You can't be hanging out at Frothers without some of the filth clinging to you.

That's beyond uncalled for. As much as I like it here, I may need to leave, because I will not accept ANYONE spewing guilt-by-association.

Editor Bill Armintrout, I find your behavior in this matter utterly reprehensible.

Consider this your posting, sir. link

I fear Editor Bill has absolutely no concept of what he's doing, or indeed what he has done here. AB is not the only supporting member he has treated in an unprofessional and contemptuous manner, and I suspect he will not be the last.

After ten years and more, it's time to get my wargaming fix elsewhere!

Lion is right.

I think I will reserve judgement at this point and give Bill the benefit of a doubt since it is unclear as to AB's level of involvement at Frothers. If AB posted objectionable comments about Claire based on unsubstantiated assumptions then that is complicit enough and not simply 'guilt by association.'

Regardless of his level of complicity, since Bill Armintrout is EIC at TMP that makes him God on this forum and he may do as he sees fit. Those who wish to leave may do so at their own discretion.

Look, I don't think Bill gives a hoot what people imagine may be going on between him and his assistant editors, but as EIC (God) he has the right to stifle and delete those he finds objectionable for what they do on other forums. Just my 2¢ so disagree away.

28mm Fanatik, AB most certainly did not post any objectionable comments about any individual anywhere, nor indeed did the Editor claim that he had. It's rather unfortunate that you feel the need to insinuate he did, and symptomatic of the disturbing turn this website has taken. The last few days have been an eye-opener for me, and I'm not liking what I'm seeing.

Stifling and deleting posts is one thing, even the bizarre scenario of locking accounts of those who are contributing financially towards the Editor's business. However, becoming abusive towards those individuals is a completely separate, and totally unacceptable, matter.

Another nail in the coffin Bill. I know Michael personally. Something is seriously wrong here.

fleabeard: It's rather unfortunate that you feel the need to insinuate he did…

Is it anymore unfortunate than people who feel the need to insinuate that our Editor must be having more than a platonic working relationship with his employees simply based on said employees' age and appearance, or that they must be somehow involved in 'The World's Oldest Profession'?

But fair enough. If AB and others did not make allegations or suggest any unsubstantiated illicit and scandulous relationship between Bill and his employees on the "other forum" in question, then I agree with you 100% that Bill is in the wrong here and owes them an apology (and maybe free lifetime supporting member privileges). But right now it appears to me that it's those people spreading vicious and salacious rumors about him and Claire on the "other forum" who are wrong, and if I were Bill I wouldn't exactly welcome them with open arms here on TMP either.

I am stunned. AB is a great guy. What's gong on.

What's gong on.

Gong???

As far as I can see, AB (a UK business selling small figures and terrain, and anicermanyoucouldnthopetomeetetc) showed on another thread that Bill (EIC of this forum) had been on another forum after he appeared to say he hadn't been. Bill clarified matters. And then seems to have fallen out with AB (a UK based business) for using a UK based forum. The same UK forum that contains Some Very Naughty People (no argument there). And Bill, who has also been a member of The Other Place for as long as I can remember. Longer than I have, I think. And Editor Claire – who I guess has joined more recently. I assume that's our Claire as Frothers doesn't strike me as being overly edited. I haven't really been following the details to be honest. Where was I?

And that's *still* United Kingdom. And nowhere in Kentucky.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

I don't post here much. I mainly look around every day or so at what interesting projects people are busying themselves with. AB got me into 6mm skirmish gaming. I find his 6mm sci-fi projects inspiring. I'm struggling to think of anything he has ever posted that was in anyway offensive.

Now this is spilling out all over the place I've taken some time to look at it in some detail. I can't see what AB said here or over there that would warrant the kind of treatment he received from Bill. As far as I can see Bill lost the plot over AB's observation that editor Claire is now a basic member. Presumably this means she has left her job at TMP?

If she has left I'm not surprised. The interview she took part in that is on the front page must have been humiliating. It is highly unprofessional and in my opinion completely unnecessary. I don't give a damn what others are saying on other parts of the internet. It is no excuse.

As an employer you have a duty of care. You look after the welfare of your employees. You are in a position of power and you don't publish interviews like that about them on a public forum. It should be obvious that you don't even ask an employee to take part in that kind of interview. It puts them firmly between a rock and a hard place. It also puts you in a very difficult position as they could easily claim that you made them answer the questions and that they feared loosing their job. It's hardly an impartial interview. Imagine for one moment being asked the questions in that interview by your boss.

The interview with Claire, the recent lock downs, and the heavy handed approach towards anyone that has the temerity to speak out or ask questions show a real lack of judgement.

I'm sure Claire leaving has several reasons, and I'm sure that the interview is one of them. It must have felt utterly humiliating to be asked by your boss to give some of those questions the time of day.

I know that voicing this will see me banned, locked or whatever. Luckily for me there are plenty of other places to talk about toy soldiers and that is all I really come here for, and thankfully AB has a forum of his own so I can keep track of his projects there.

Angel Barracks has been nothing but polite and inspiring to me personally, as well as really opening my eyes to the potential of 6mm and even smaller scales, while leading at least one excellent discussion on the "sci-fi-ness" of sci-fi rules.

I hope that this unpleasantness will pass, and that AB may return, and I will certainly seek him out elsewhere, as he seems to be a fantastic proponent for miniatures, sci fi rulesets, the 6mm "scale" and wargaming in general.

I hope that Bill may see that some, if not most of this heavy-handedness seems misplaced and counter-productive to a sense of community, and that he may lead the way by exhibiting a more conciliatory spirit, and perhaps be a bit less quick to anger, or feel the need to constantly post a sharp retort to every comment.

Cheers.

Angel Barracks has been nothing but polite and inspiring to me personally…

My sole issue with AB is that he's a participant in the topic in which my editors have been attacked, and raised no objections or said anything about it.

He's apparently offended by something about TMP and has chosen to leave, but being on Frothers in a topic where my editors are referred to as prostitutes, rapists, and dumb Asians doesn't seem to bother him at all.

I care about my workers, so I take it personally when someone stands idly by and fails to speak up when bullies gang up on someone.

Instead, he's asking about the best way he can sell them his products???

Maybe Bill because AB acts like a professional and doesn't try and mud wrestle every pig that walks by?

By responding to those allegations all you have done is make yourself look silly. You can't counter a claim that you are exploiting your employees by having one of your employees do an interview where they claim they aren't being exploited. The power imbalance is such that it is expected they would say everything is fine no matter what.

And when the allegations come from some random idiots on the Internet they shouldn't even be dignified with a response.

Bill, personally I find it shocking that you could describe AB as filth for merely posting on that Frothers thread. You seem to be turning this issue into a guilt by association or 'if you're not with us you're against us' type of thing, which can't be good for the forum.

So because I post and participate in a forum thread where someone is an azzhole, I'm an azzhole by association? Just saying here Bill…

:-p

ps. the amount of anti-Chinese and pro-American sentiments I've seen on TMP are sickening at some times…

I've defended the editor here as I totally believe the treatment he has received is wrong.

But I have to say I'm troubled and even disturbed by the treatment of AB in this instance. I always found AB to be a gentleman here but that's beside the point. Name calling by any reasoning but especially for reasons of association could and should never be justified. I understand the editor's statement broke the rules of this site which presumably he saw fit to put into place to begin with. If the editor believes himself to be above the very rules he put into place then that shows even worse judgement on his part.

I don't have a clue to what he's being going though recently but I can understand Bill's frustration. Having said that; especially considering his position as Chief Editor I believe he has a responsibility to display better judgement than this.

Bill I remember recently reading you state on a thread that it takes a big man to admit when they've been wrong.
We certainly all make mistakes and I wonder if when things settle down and you clear your head you might see that perhaps in this case you might have overstepped the mark

I'm an active member of Frothers (Inso) and I visit many other forums (LAF, FoD, Ammo-Bunker, Dakka-Dakka… the list goes on).

I can be opinionated but that is because I am me… not because I post on a forum that you have issues with.

I have always undersood that when life presents people with a problem, it is how they deal with it that makes them who they are, not the problem itself.

Bill, I am assuming that you are a grown man and that you have some form of professional background outside of this forum (TMP) so I am surprised that you have allowed yourself to get drawn into such a childish situation.

What you have managed to achieve is gain TMP a questionable reputation as a result of your actions. It may be time to either step up, admit a few home truths and apologise or (if there is a comittee of some sort) take a leave of absence to get a grip.

This episode has been an embarassment for TMP.

Bill I remember recently reading you state on a thread that it takes a big man to admit when they've been wrong.

I've never known him do that (admit he's wrong) on TMP. He may have done, but I haven't seen it.

I know Michael personally. I only know Bill through this site. I'll go with Michael on this one.

Doug

Just to add a point of order, the screenshot of the discussion in the members area of TMP that was sent to a member of Frothers was not sent by AB as previously alleged.

Again, just think you should stay AB …

Not sure if I made it ambiguous but just for the record It wasn't Bill apologizing; he was praising someone else who did! And I don't know AB apart from here but I'd miss his contributions too

Anyone have a Link for his blog