Help support TMP


"Chinese Warlords access to anti tank rifles?" Topic


4 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Remember that you can Stifle members so that you don't have to read their posts.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Firearms Message Board

Back to the Interwar (WWI to WWII) Message Board


Action Log

20 May 2019 4:55 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to Firearms board

Areas of Interest

Renaissance
18th Century
Napoleonic
American Civil War
19th Century
World War One
World War Two on the Land
Modern

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Ruleset


Featured Showcase Article

1:48 AMX 10-RC Tank Destroyer

Looking for an armored car with some punch?


Featured Book Review


932 hits since 24 Jul 2014
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Crazyfrenchteacher24 Jul 2014 1:24 p.m. PST

Hi everyone,
I've been combing through my Osprey titles and numerous web pages, but I can't find any references to the use of anti-tank rifles during the Warlord period from 1917 – 1930. From what I can gather the only one available at the time was the Mauser 1918 T-Gewehr, as its too early for the Boys or the Polish Kb ppanc wz.35. I figured with the Sino-German pact some must have found their way into Warlord hands, maybe not in huge numbers, but most sides did use armored vehicles or trains. Anyway, just wondering if I could pick your brains.

BlackWidowPilot Fezian24 Jul 2014 2:09 p.m. PST

AFAIK I have not found any references anywhere to any of the Warlords having acquired anti tank rifles or specialist anti tank guns of any sort. AFVs were quite rare in the Chinese Civil War, as were actual field artillery pieces.

The usual solution to an armored vehicle IIRC was to either turn a field gun or mountain gun on the offending AFV or armored train, or get the Hell out of its way!evil grin

Wu Pei Fu and his great rival Chiang Tso-lin each had a small inventory of AFVs, the former Citroen-Kegresse halftrack armored cars, the later Renault FT-17s, but to date I haven't come across any accounts of encounters between them at any time.

Armored trains and armored vehicles like field artillery were prestige weapons, so the warlords were often quite reluctant to actually risk their prized toys in direct combat, preferring instead to "engage with the ordinary…" as Sun Tzu advised, and "…win with the extraordinary" with their best troop units rather than risk losing on elf their prized armored cars or field guns.

I do know that a small number of Boys ATRs were supplied to the KMT for use against Japan, but as to their actual numbers and actual deployment in battle, I haven't found any accounts to date.

I do know that the 88th Division (German trained and equipped) used a small number of Pak 36 during the fighting for Shanghai in 1937, but again, very few, and well after the Warlord era had come to an end.


Hope this helps!


Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Crazyfrenchteacher24 Jul 2014 3:09 p.m. PST

Thanks for the quick response, I had hoped that the anti-tank rifle had been another piece of German kit that had made its way to China-like the MP18 SMG. I'm painting up Chilhli and Fengtien forces, both seemed to have been the better equipped of the Warlord armies.

Rudysnelson24 Jul 2014 3:26 p.m. PST

It took a few years before excess equipment from WW1 began to make its way to China. There were a number of causes closer to home ( Russia, Trans-Caucas, Turkey-Greece, Poland) which used up the excessive equipment before it got to China.
By the end of the 1920s, the number of AT-rifles making into Chinese hands may have increased but I doubt if much of it made it to Warlords hands.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.