"AWI church" Topic
29 Posts
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French Wargame Holidays | 22 Jul 2014 2:50 a.m. PST |
Just off the desk the plastic church, the perfect way to kick off my new AWI project! link Cheers Matt |
(Stolen Name) | 22 Jul 2014 2:52 a.m. PST |
Very neat job – hope mine turns out as well – its at undercoat stage ATM |
general btsherman | 22 Jul 2014 3:58 a.m. PST |
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GiloUK | 22 Jul 2014 7:49 a.m. PST |
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Old Contemptibles | 22 Jul 2014 11:48 a.m. PST |
Nice. Reminds me of the church from the "Patriot" movie. Nice church, not so much the movie. |
Dave Crowell | 22 Jul 2014 12:02 p.m. PST |
Very nice chapel. On an historical note, I believe in the actual incident the church was burned by Patriots with Loyalists inside. But that didn't fit Mr. Gibson's politics. |
dBerczerk | 22 Jul 2014 12:15 p.m. PST |
I almost picked up this Renedra kit from the Architects of War stand at HISTORICON. After seeing your completed model, I am sorry I didn't. |
Bandolier | 22 Jul 2014 3:56 p.m. PST |
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Crucible Orc | 22 Jul 2014 4:57 p.m. PST |
you should upalaod your pics to blogspot. photobucket has cut off your bandwidth, and teh pictures are no longer visible. |
MajorB | 23 Jul 2014 12:43 p.m. PST |
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French Wargame Holidays | 25 Jul 2014 5:47 a.m. PST |
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Early morning writer | 26 Jul 2014 7:04 a.m. PST |
Nicely done. And Mr. Crowell, whatever Mr. Gibson's politics, he was neither writer, director, nor producer on that production so I doubt very much he had the influence to determine whether it was loyalists or rebels in the church in the movie. And, yes, certainly some actors can influence a production before they will commit to a project and it is possible he requested this. Much more likely the decision was made between writer, director, and producer. Don't know for certain in this particular case but do know for certain that is the normal process. I do know that Mr. Gibson has become a whipping post, especially on this board for that movie. I'd prefer you all adopt this mindset: whatever our qualms with any historical movie (unless it really is trash) at least a historical movie got made, especially one on the subject of the American Revolution – and one that included battle scenes. Just how many movies are there out there on this subject with such scenes? They are few and far between. And it is somewhere next door to impossible to get such movies made. At least it wasn't some "graphic novel" travesty interpretation of history which in today's Hollywood is much more likely what would have been made. The Patriot isn't a perfect movie but as a movie it isn't really all that bad. And it is a MOVIE, not history – that comes in documentaries and books, not something made as entertainment, which is what narrative movies are supposed to accomplish. If Hollywood were aware of the general TMP mindset and thought we were the principle audience for such movies (leaving aside the economics and economies of scale involved, of course) there would never be another historical movie of any stripe made again. Ever. (yes, my little soap box issue) |
NY Irish | 26 Jul 2014 10:54 a.m. PST |
Cool church and nice paint job. I would cut off the cross though. Not many 18th c Protestant churches in America would have that – to Popish! Anglican, maybe, but then the church would prob be made of stone. |
Supercilius Maximus | 26 Jul 2014 2:49 p.m. PST |
@ NY Irish. Yes, the cross jarred somewhat with me, too – a little too "evangelistic" for the mid-18th Century, possibly more post-Civil War. @ Dave Crowell,
Very nice chapel. On an historical note, I believe in the actual incident the church was burned by Patriots with Loyalists inside. But that didn't fit Mr. Gibson's politics. The incident occurred at Gnaddenhutten in Pennsylvania. An Iroquois raiding party was being chased by New Jersey militia, and stopped at a village of Mennonite Indians who were peaceful. When the militia arrived, they found booty left behind by the raiders and, despite knowing the villagers were passive, decided to punish them for the raid. They struck all the villagers on the head with a large wood mallet and threw all the bodies into the church, which was then burnt. @ EMW,
And Mr. Crowell, whatever Mr. Gibson's politics, he was neither writer, director, nor producer on that production so I doubt very much he had the influence to determine whether it was loyalists or rebels in the church in the movie. And, yes, certainly some actors can influence a production before they will commit to a project and it is possible he requested this. Much more likely the decision was made between writer, director, and producer. Don't know for certain in this particular case but do know for certain that is the normal process. I do know that Mr. Gibson has become a whipping post, especially on this board for that movie. I'm surprised you know so much about films, but not about Mr Gibson's Anglophobia – one of two things, the other being alcoholism, he appears to have inherited from his Fenian-wannabe father. Of course, Hollywood being what it is, it only noticed that he's a drunken racist when he had a pop at the Jews; however, some years ago he toured the UK chat-show circuit promoting "Braveheart" and made his views of our country more than clear. I don't know if he influenced that particular scene either, but I've no doubt at all he approved of it 100% (though from memory, he's not actually in it). There's also the scene where a British subaltern is ordered to execute wounded prisoners outside a hospital – certainly not even Loyalist officers are reported to have done at any time in the war. I'd prefer you all adopt this mindset: whatever our qualms with any historical movie (unless it really is trash) at least a historical movie got made, especially one on the subject of the American Revolution – and one that included battle scenes. Just how many movies are there out there on this subject with such scenes? They are few and far between. And it is somewhere next door to impossible to get such movies made. At least it wasn't some "graphic novel" travesty interpretation of history which in today's Hollywood is much more likely what would have been made. Oh well, that's all right then. Forget the portrayal of men who generally fought an honourable war as quasi-Nazis, eh? The Patriot isn't a perfect movie but as a movie it isn't really all that bad. And it is a MOVIE, not history – that comes in documentaries and books, not something made as entertainment, which is what narrative movies are supposed to accomplish. So you'd be quite happy with a film that portrayed American forces perpetrating Nazi-style atrocities that simply never happened just because it covered a neglected period of history, would you? Sorry, but "The Patriot" is a crap movie on all levels and – from re-enactor friends who were engaged in the initial stages (and mostly walked away because of everything from historical distortion, through the complete waste of an enormous effort to train extras, to health-and-safety issues with the mounted action and pyrotechnics) – most of this was influenced by the agenda of Gibson and Emmerich. In many cases, accurate depictions of history, particularly battle scenes, were re-written to make them "more dramatic" when they were perfectly good already. I think you're being very, very naive when it comes to how modern audiences unfamiliar with a subject view "historical" movies – as far as the majority are concerned, such films ARE historical fact (provided of course they show the "right" message). In such circumstances, it is the duty of people like us to point out such distortions (or lies, to give them their proper name), and explain what really happened. And that, I'm afriad, is one of MY little soap box issues. I seldom "rant" on the 18th Century boards (in fact, the only other time I recall doing it is over this film), because I generally find there is no need to, either in terms of subject matter or the general nature of discussion on this particular board. However, "The Patriot" is something I shall always make an exception for, and without apology. Frankly it is anti-British to the point of being, if not actually racist, then certainly stereotyping of the worst sort. |
NY Irish | 26 Jul 2014 7:31 p.m. PST |
That movie had pretty much everything wrong except there was once a war between England and her colonies. My favorite worst part was the party scene with the Gullah -all those 18th century people dancing away like your drunk uncle at a wedding. Early Morning has a point, though. You don't see many Rev War films. And lets not pretend that Tarleton was a Boy Scout. The Brits fought a rather clean war, for a war, anyway, but there is a reason they coined the phrase "Tarleton's Quarter". Anyway, cool church. |
Supercilius Maximus | 27 Jul 2014 5:04 a.m. PST |
Actually, Tarleton was far from the brute of popular history – after the war, he entertained several of his former enemies who were touring Europe. Nobody seems to have had a problem with him at the time, and most of his nicknames seem to have been modern inventions (Robert Bass's "The Green Dragoon" being a particular culprit). Here is a link to an American historian's investigation of his reputation using primary sources. The section on Wasxhaws – where Tarleton is vindicated using the accounts of Continental officers – is particularly interesting. link |
NY Irish | 27 Jul 2014 6:08 a.m. PST |
Well he burnt civilian homes in Westchester in retaliation for coming under militia fire. He was going to burn a home filled with wounded from both sides after a fight in Bedford, until the regimental surgeon protested. There is no way He and the Legion were as bad as in the film -the Revolution didn't see atrocities like those in other times and places- but Bloody Ban had a bad reputation here in NY and that is in the McDonald Papers collected from eyewitnesses after the war. I'm sure you know more about it than I, though; I will always defer to your knowledge on the era, Super Max. Anybody on TMP would agree! (I'm not kidding-tone is hard to confer!) |
historygamer | 29 Jul 2014 9:42 a.m. PST |
Thee is an interesting thread in the book, "The Men Who Lost America", about how many of the younger officers such as Tarleton and Andre wanted to prosecute a more brutal war, as portrayed in the movie, but were held in check by the senior officers such at Clinton and Cornwallis who saw no good coming of that. By the way, excellent book. I highly recommend it. It is also interesting to look at the religious overtones of the Church of England vs the other Protestant faiths, and how those churches were treated by the English. Super Max – is your email hacked as I got a junk mail from you and was signed with your name. Just letting you know, change your password. :-) |
Supercilius Maximus | 29 Jul 2014 12:40 p.m. PST |
Yes, I actually got one sent to me, too! On the case…… |
historygamer | 29 Jul 2014 12:53 p.m. PST |
Wow, you spammed yourself. Cool. |
trailape | 29 Jul 2014 4:58 p.m. PST |
Sorry, but "The Patriot" is a crap movie on all levels Yep! Just like Braveheart. Just another chance to make the English look like scum. |
historygamer | 30 Jul 2014 6:50 a.m. PST |
Sooo, about making the English look bad. I just read the chapter on Admiral Rodney taking the island of St. Eustatius. Wow. It would be hard for a fiction writer to come up with what he did there to make the English look worse. Even parliament was outraged – at least the opposition was anyway. General Vaughn was part of that too, though he tried to mitigate some of the worse circumstances. Kind of. It reads like Pirates of the Caribbean. Not bashing the English, but clearly not a banner day for the Crown. Funny, but he is largely remembered as a successful Admiral for his later victories – though he is perhaps most responsible for the loss of Cornwallis at Yorktown. |
Supercilius Maximus | 30 Jul 2014 10:19 p.m. PST |
I thought Arbuthnot was the culprit re. Yorktown, taking weeks to prepare a relief force in NYC whilst Clinton fumed at sitting around twiddling his thumbs (the latter came from a naval family and actually had a good grasp of maritime strategy). You're right about St Eustatius – it was a total bun-fight and, whilst a surprisingly rare occurrence (at least in such an extreme form), unfortunately it did illustrate the worst case scenario of the Admiralty's way of "inspiring" commanders with prize money. Vaughan was quite an aggressive commander, but even he was stunned by the venality of the situation. |
historygamer | 31 Jul 2014 11:59 a.m. PST |
According to this book it was Rodney who dropped the ball per shadowing the French fleet out of the Caribbean and matching them in North America. It was his job to have sailed to America to re-enforce that fleet and lead it against the combined French fleets, being the senior officer. Many at the time felt he might have won and opened the blockade – given his previous and subsequent record of victories. Instead, he sailed back to England, with some ships needed elsewhere, to defend his actions at St. Eustatius. What I found shocking was his treatment of the Jews there, when he found they were withholding money, so he rounded up the men and shipped them off, effectively destroying the significant Jewish community on the island. To be fair, he also took Loyalist property too, though he did not ship them away. |
krisgibbo | 01 Aug 2014 4:37 p.m. PST |
I'm new here but is there is a general tendency to confuse England and Great Britain, and the United Kingdom? I'm English. I'm half Spanish (lost more Wars of Independence than you can shake a stick at and persecuted Jewish, Muslim and Protestant peoples on an industrial scale), a quarter English (Old Northern Catholic Family) and a quarter Ulster Irish (Orangemen and Church of Ireland). My family now includes the Austrian, Maltese, Jamaican, Turkish and Norwegian. My great grandad was from Belfast and one of three orphans. One went to England, one to Australia and the other to America. My Spanish grandparents were murdered during the SCW and I was adopted and raised by an Irish Catholic mother and Scottish Protestant father. So all of my ancestors were at one point at war with one another in conflicts that make the AWI look like a war fought on reasonable terms. So back on track. I really like the church. We're starting a Southern campaign and I'm putting together MDF buildings from from those fine people from Scotland, Warbases. My friend is making the church and so it's inspiring to see the finished article . |
dBerczerk | 02 Aug 2014 4:36 a.m. PST |
So, can the Renedra model church be built without the cross over the entrance, or is it cast into the plastic kit? If cast-on, any estimate on how difficult it would be to remove it prior to assembly? |
French Wargame Holidays | 07 Aug 2014 4:02 a.m. PST |
Cast on, I think……cannot remember |
Minenfeld | 03 Sep 2014 3:03 p.m. PST |
For those who wargame the AWI in 10mm, Bachmann do a great N gauge church. You can use it as is, or like me, completely repaint and base it ! You should be able to pick one up on Ebay for about £10.00 GBP/ $14. USD Product details = BACHMANN N Gauge COUNTRY CHURCH Cat 45815. |
PentexRX8 | 06 Oct 2014 4:57 a.m. PST |
Blue willow, Do you recall the colors you used to paint the church? I just picked one of these up myself this weekend and would like to copy what you did. Imitation, flattery, all that stuff. By the way, the cross is indeed molded on to the front panel of the church. Pat |
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