"Israeli army uses main battle tank Magach 5 fitted with..." Topic

…12 Spike anti-tank missile launchers.

"Pictures released on Internet during the Israeli military operation Protective Edge has showed a new version of the Magach main battle tank fitted with an anti-tank guided missile launchers Spike. The Magach 5 tank is based on the old American-made M48A5 main battle tank.

The Magach Spike is fitted with 12 Rafael Tamuz (Spike -NLOS) missile launchers mounted at the rear of the turret.

A curved Spike NLOS antennna is mounted on the top of the turret, which is lowered in road position…"

Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Actually pictures have been around for a couple of years but the recent ones show more detail

Wow, I was skeptical that was actually a M48 as I thought even the Israelis would have retired them in favor of the M60, but you can definitely see the curve of a M48 hull.

I wonder if they have warehouses full of Super Shermans somewhere …

What is surprising me is that they still use it, but have slated Merkava IIIs for sale a couple of months ago!

Actually this is a turret rebuild with a dummy gun.

As it is intended for long range accurate missile fire rather than closer work the chassis with additional protection is still viable.

The Centurion hull is still in service as a heavy APC and Engineering vehicle.

I suspect that the Merkava offered for sale are early versions without the full update up armouring.

Can anyone confirm this?

I thought it was an M60 too … yes, you can see the curve of the M48 front hull. Looks like they did a heck of an upgrade, as always … Looks kind of like a Khurasan Sci-fi Tank ! GHQ doesn't even have a Magach 5 yet. But they have the 6 and 7 which is an M60 … link

Just goes to show you that a production tank is never the same once it reaches the battlefield. It might look pristine in the shed, but as it endures life out there, it gets all sorts of things attached and changed through its life.

Why do Isreal need to field an anti tank tank, when was the last time the Palistinians had a tank?

Point targets, also the IDF are sensibly not just thinking about their current enemies (as in the ones not attacking them at the moment, but waiting to).

Israel Hits Hundreds Of Targets In Gaza As Soldier Is Confirmed Missing.

"• Israeli soldier captured during intense battle in Shujai'iya
• Palestinian death toll nears 600, with 27 Israeli soldiers killed
• John Kerry to meet UN chief and Egyptian mediators in Cairo

Israel continued to pound Gaza overnight, including hitting 100 targets in Shujai'iya, the scene of the most intense fighting of the conflict, as the Israeli military confirmed that one of its soldiers was missing.

Hamas claimed on Sunday that it had captured an Israeli soldier during the intense battle in Shujai'iya…"

Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Hmmmm, interesting design.

Haven't seen it yet on the tellie.

Why do Isreal need to field an anti tank tank, when was the last time the Palistinians had a tank?

Most soldiers I know prefer ATGMs for bunker-busting. Using a Javelin, even when they have AT4 rockets in the Stryker.

More intel on the Megach – en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magach And regardless if HAMAS had tanks or not … Grunts like them around for fire support … or just to run over or thru stuff … like in the 'stan. Single story sand brick structures don't stand up to much … As noted, many of the IDF's enemies and former enemies have lots of AFVs. Like Syria, Egypt, Jordan, etc. …

Trophy active protection system against anti tank missile rockets for combat vehicle Rafael Israel.

The Trophy active protection system for combat vehicles has showed its efficiency during the Israeli military operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip. It's the first real test of Trophy during real combat operations and the Trophy system has intercepted five anti-tank missiles aimed at armored IDF vehicles in Gaza.

YouTube link

Amicalement
Armand

Sounds like a good system to have with all the RPGs, etc., around in the region … Note that both Iron Dome and Trophy are defensive systems as well …

Given they might face M1's in the future seems a shrewd move and it keeps a veteran workhorse in action. Trophy seems to be a trailblazer, as with a lot of Israeli technology.

And it seems to work as well !

Hamas Is Waging A Tunnel War Against Israel

"Israel has been shocked by the scope and methods of Hamas tunnel warfare.

In at least one case, Hamas fighters have infiltrated Israel wearing Israeli military uniforms. "This is a threat to the south," Maj. Gen. Sami Turgeman, head of the Army's Southern Command, said.

The Hamas attack tunnels, estimated at up to 60, have forced Israel to close areas to civilian traffic…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

The IDF are developing seismic detectors to stop any further tunnels, but the discovery of this extensive network, which would have remained undetected without the ground operation, give the lie to Hamas' claim they are the victims. Shame they couldn't have used the considerable resources needed to build them to improve their civilian infrastructure.

getting back to ADS's, I wonder what the ATGW designers will think up, will it be passive (jamming, stealth etc) or active (decoy warheads, hyper velocity stand-off munitions)?. Will tanks have to be engaged by DPICM, to take out sensors, before the ATGW's?

I suspect that you're going to see shorter engagement ranges with faster missiles. Sure, the missile might be able to take out a tank at 5000+m, but the defenses need time to act. Fast missiles at short range reduce the time the defenses have to work.

When the defenses can actually swat incoming APFSDS tank rounds is when the attackers would have to switch to volley fire.

Weapons systems' tech evolves … so will tactics … and vise versa … hopefully. Or you have losses like in the ACW or WWI … However, the learning curve is usually steep in those early engagments until someone figures out how to deal with the new tech and/or tactics … or both …

The Reasons Why Israel's Military Is In Such A Tough Fight

"Ever since its sweeping victory in the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel has been regarded as the dominant military power in the Middle East. No Arab state has risked a full-fledged war in decades, and few question the conventional wisdom that Israel would swiftly defeat any national army in a traditional, head-to-head confrontation.

Yet for the third time in the past decade, Israel's powerful military finds itself in a protracted, messy fight with a small, elusive, Islamist group and has been unable to score a quick and decisive victory.

The current bloodletting between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip is nearly three weeks old and Israel has pounded the Palestinian territory, leaving more than 800 Palestinians dead, most of them civilians. Yet Israel has not halted the Hamas rockets and is still working to destroy a tunnel network it's cited as the main reason for the operation…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Winning an insurgency is not easy.

Well, OK, it is: all you need to do is make the general population like your troops more than they like the insurgents.

Achieving that when all the Palestinians are the hotheads that Egypt, Jordan and even Syria would not allow into their countries is a non-starter.

Frack, just recently there was a case of an Arab boy who was in dire need of a heart transplant. He was taken to an Israeli hospital, and lucked out that there was a heart available for him. Donated by an Israeli family that had just lost their son to an attack Hamas claimed responsibility for. "Maybe this can be the start of a new peace" the family and doctors said. Then the Arab boy's mother comes on TV and starts going off on how she "will raise him to be a martyr, and kill as many Israelis as he can." With an Israeli heart beating in his chest, put there by Israeli doctors. *facepalm*

I'm sadly convinced that the only way there will be peace in Gaza is when it's the peace of the graveyard.

'Hamas And Hezbollah Now Fight More Like Armies'. Seriously?

Laughable article from a laughably biased source. Thanks for making me smile Tango, albeit sardonically, God knows, the way the world is unravelling any humour, however black, is much needed.

I find that the Progressive Collective and their media lackeys are a constant source of mirth. Almost as good as reading about NorKor telling its populace that they won the World Cup.

Why Is Israel Losing a War It's Winning?

"Things change, of course—the only constant in the Middle East is sudden and dramatic change—but as I write it seems as if Israel is losing the war in Gaza, even as it wins the battle against Hamas's rocket arsenal, and even as it destroys the tunnels meant to convey terrorists underground to Israel (and to carry Israeli hostages back to Gaza).

This is not the first time Israel has found itself losing on the battlefield of perception. Why is it happening again? Here are six possible reasons:

1. In a fight between a state actor and a non-state actor, the non-state actor can win merely by surviving. The party with tanks and planes is expected to win; the non-state group merely has to stay alive in order to declare victory. In a completely decontextualized, emotion-driven environment, Hamas can portray itself as the besieged upstart, even when it is the party that rejects ceasefires, and in particular because it is skilled at preventing journalists from documenting the activities of its armed wing. (I am differentiating here between Hamas's leadership and Gaza's civilians, who are genuinely besieged, from all directions…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

'Hamas And Hezbollah Now Fight More Like Armies'.

Don't know where that idea came from, they are fighting almost classic Guerilla Warfare … Using ambushes, IEDs, rocket/mortar attacks as well as the media …

The IDF needs to spend less money on tanks it doesn't need and more on teaching its soldiers that hospitals aren't targets….

I believe they can loose their immunity if used as firing positions, military headquarters, storage of munitions, same with ambulances, if used to transport uninjured military personnel and material.

storage of munitions

Watch as a single Israeli bomb/missile hits a target and then the secondary explosions continue for another ten minutes. Who knew that bandages, school books, and baby formula were so volatile.

Well, the UN felt so sorry for Hamas they returned the missiles they'd stored in their schools. As for baby milk Slick Willie will tell you how dangerous that stuff can be!

Plenty of things in a hospital will explode without it being ammunition.

Of course the Israelis are breaking plenty of other Geneva Conventions as well – such as Article 33 about reprisals and collective punishment.

If we start locking up Israeli officers (and Hamas ones….) we might make some progress.

A hospital doesn't lose it's protection unless clear warnings and a time limit to alter behaviour are given. (article 21).

Note a hospital is allowed to be guarded and have a storage of ammunition as this can be that taken from the wounded.

The IDF gave warnings, look at the videos and since when have 122mm Grad rockets been small arms? I'd have though Hamas forcing civilians to stay, after they have been warned is a direct contravention to Article 33.

Where does it say hospitals can be used as command centres? Sorry, in one post (17th July) you say understand why Hamas flout these conventions (the Israelis naturally are to blame) in the next you are claiming they are being used legitimately. Which is it?

stu … this thread is about the IDF MBTs and weapons systems tech, etc. … Please take your comments elsewhere, if you're not going stay on the topic … It's like when we're on a thread talking about German WWII AFVs … we are not talking about Nazi politics, war crimes, etc. … just about weapons tech …