"Prime with primer or paint ?" Topic

Is priming a (metal) figure with primer necesary or can one prime with paint. I'm talking acrylics. For ex. : is priming with Vallejo black primer better than just priming with a brush using Vallejo black paint ?
I've never been convinced of any real difference. Am I wrong?
Furthemore, Ive been informed that people painting "big" metal figures, you know, the display models, use black Humbrol. Thoughts on this ?

If you intend to game with them then prime them. If it's going to be under glass then paint is probably fine.

Know that primer is slightly coarse so that it absorbs pigments and helps it adhere. Regular paint won't do that.

So called "Primer" is not necessary.
I spray everything with WalMart Flat Black or Flat White, $.99 USD per can.
So-called hobby "primers" have very poor quality control. I would estimate that 40% of my cans from ALL BRANDS, from Ral Partha to Floquil to Armoury to… you name it, failed at one point when barely half the paint was gone from the can. By "fail", I mean that it spat out sandy grit rather than a fine mist.

I have been using straight, cheap WalMart spray paints to prime my figures for years, and have never had any problems.

I use gesso primer. No worries about humidity or clogged nozzle.

I've used various cheap store brand black paints myself; but with varying degree of success. Some were down right disasters. For the last few years I've been using Krylon Indoor/Outdoor primer. It's been very consistent, sprays through the entire bottle, and takes paint great. Yea, it'll set you back 4 or 5 bucks for 12 oz but I find the consistency worth it and it's cheaper than those hobby primers John mentions (which I too have had issues with). -JT

I tend to prime figures with either a matt white or black ….. Or with thinned down humbrol 33 matt black when the weather isn't good for spraying

Vehicles are a bit different as I tend to under coat to allow me to build the colour…. So a dark brown…..to build a Dunkelgelb….for german vehicles for example…..

i can't spray in the house and we have summer humidity issues anyway so i also use Gesso for priming . comes in white , black and grey . unless it's applied ridiculously thick it snugs down around the details without hiding any , and has a nice rough 'tooth' for paint to adhere to . and it cleans up with water .
so far i haven't found any reason NOT to use it on metal , resin or plastic . haven't tried it on Reaper Bones because i don't own any yet .

I spray first and then touch up any spots that the mist didn't reach by hand.

I'll never use spray paint again. It usually comes out too coarse or grainy.

For primer I just water down some cheap black or white ceramic paint I get at Walmart.

I use white acrylic wood primer from Wilco (in UK)- works a treat and lets down with water. 1 tin almost lasts me for ever!

Aaaaargh -- I am shocked at the responses!!!!!!!!

You MUST use primer -- the function of primer is to serve as the glue that holds paint to the figure. If you don't use a good primer, you will find the paint constantly wears off as you handle the figures. If you use a good primer, the paint will stay in place.

My pet theory is that the constant discussions about which varnish to use are caused by the fact that people don't prime, and are desperately trying to hold the paint onto the figure. For the record, I never varnish, and never have paint chipping issues (except for my Japanese, where I used a paint undercoat, and which chip all the time!)

I am in Australia, and generally wargaming stuff is more expensive and hard to get. However, having lived in the US for many years I feel confident in saying that we have the best primer available anywhere -- Wattyl Super Etch spray primer. (It is actually a rebranded Rustoleum product, so it is also available in the US -- though I don't know what it is called there, and I never saw anything equivalent in US stores)

I use WalMart primer also. One in a while I prime with WalMart flat black but I dot get the grip that actual primer gives.

I've converted to the OFM's method. I use Walmart spray paint. Not the primer. Just gray or black spray paint. And it works just fine for everything from 15mm figures up to 1/64 scale railroad cars.

Only issues I had is some resin kits have a 'greasy' texture that does not want to take paint or primer. But I find that is a specific issue to the resin used, not the paint.

"haven't tried it on Reaper Bones because i don't own any yet ."

Gesso works great on them…. ;-)

I think I've used every possible option save not priming at all…

--Cheap Walmart or similar branded spray paint works if you have room and climate to spray. The "cheap" factor works in your favor because it doesn't put down a thick coat.
--Hobby primers, as noted, are a mess. And expensive.
--Had very good luck with various automobile primers. Most come in grey, which doesn't work for me.
--Black acrylic or enamel paint work, but I can't say anything about longevity. I do my 6mm this way, as I'll never pick them up by the figure.
--I've been using Liquitex Black Gesso for quite a while now--North Carolina and Florida have humidity issues. It's cheap; 24 hrs drying time can be inconventient, and I always have to touch up afterwards, but that was also the case with sprays.

FWIW I've never had Liquitex Gesso take more than 1 hour to dry. I don't know where you're getting this 24 hour drying time.

6For years used walmart flat white as a primer with no bad results . I use Walmat primer ( /.30 cents more ) now and It seems to take paint even better .
To answer the question …yes you should prime . Gesso or primer is best .

I use Vallejo black primer, hand brushed and am pleased with the results, though it instantly rubs off when wet, but appears to lock down when dry. I think it is designed for air brushes as well..

I find 95% of the figure is covered in the first application and so when dry! I go in a second time to pick out the uncovered or thin bits.

From the little I know, Gesso is meant to go down on something that itself has a tooth …. I.e. Fabric or board, rather than metal. If it adheres it offers a great tooth for paint (it's intended purpose).

Some car spray primers contain a filler, designed to take out blemishes on the car surface, but are said to likewise reduce fine detail on a figure.

Patrick--from the bottle. It dries to the touch within an hour or so, yes.

Here's some conversation on the matter:
link

I definitely recommend "Primer.", though that can mean many things. Actual Primer, Spray Paint, Gesso, etc. the one thing I really avoid is plain acrylic paint as it doesn't have the durability of other primers.

As well as durability, the ability of a primer to take and hold paint (called "tooth") is very important. Cheap Spray paints and Gesso are favorites of mine, and they both seem to have alot of "tooth".

As for Gesso and dry times. You can paint it pretty quickly, but if you're going to sand, stamp it, or use it for canvas prep (as in jeffreyw3's link) you should probably wait the 24 hours. Also, I'd wait 24 hours between gesso application and any varnish step (though you can paint in between) so the gesso and paint have time to really dry out.

I routinely paint miniatures as soon as they feel dry. I've had zero issues with durability over a couple hundred or so minis, but I also dip and varnish, so my minis are very well protected.

I like Testors enamel grey primer applied with an airbrush – now, whether it is any different than their grey paint, I'm really not sure…

Primer is actually just paint with a small amount of glue added to it. That's why it sticks to surfaces better than regular paint. I've used Tamiya light gray fine surface primer (the spray can) for as long as I can remember and never had a can go bad or lose propellent with 3/4 of a can still to go the way Krylon invariably does to me

There are multiple forms of primer. "Etch primer actually acid etches the surface giving the coating it's bond while epoxy primer creates a mechanical bond by grabbing the surface texture".

Also see link

I use etch primer ,from Bunnings , only on metal, then I base coat with Tamiya and I varnish upon completion as well.
nb SLS apprently means "sticks like "
link

Primer?

No, just paint as an undercoat. I usually 'prime' soft plastic figures with undiluted PVA, as is the fashion these days.

I rarely bother varnishing these days either, it really doesn't seem to make a blind bit of difference. Depends on your painting technique of course.

I'm in the "prime" with cheap wally world spray paint faction. Flat black, white, or grey, depending on the scheme I'm going for.

I come from an auto body, structural, and industrial painting background and for miniatures using a true primer is just overkill 99% of the time.

I only go to actual primers when I run into something that plain paint just won't stick to like some of the cheaper grade plastics, and sometimes resin.

Anyone use Gesso on 6mm and smaller stuff? Currently I use Gesso on bigger stuff (15mm+) but still spray for the smaller scales, but I've had enough bad spray experiences (bad cans, humidity, acts of deities) that I'd rather paint on Gesso for everything, but I'm not sure how well it works on small stuff, and then there's the touch up cycle for it.

Another question – has anyone seen grey Liquidtex Gesso in Michael's lately? My local Michaels just have clear or black, or the Bob Ross cheaper stuff in grey. My last bottle is almost out and I need to find a replacement.

Thanks,
Chris

I use that Vallejo surface primer. Good stuff. I've used it for scale as small as 10mm.

Thank you for all the info. My conclusion ? Those who always used primer say : use primer. Those who never use primer say : don't. Back to square one.
Ecxept: the fixing of the paint for figures that are being "handled" is being done buy putting on varnish. I tend to use gloss varnish all over and then correct (by hand)by going over the parts wich need to have matt, with matt varnish.
normsmith : I so far consider your reaction as the most likely.
Nick Browler : Aaaaargh -- I am shocked at the responses!!!!!!!! You HAVE to varnish….!!!!

Primer. In my case Scale 75 primer, simply because it has a slight tooth, dries completely flat matte and goes on equally well with a brush or airbrush.