"Eclaireurs of Garde....that shako shape" Topic

I have left this too late, as I have done a mixture of both and my figures are to be undercoated tomorrow.

I accept no pennon on the lance (indeed only half have a lance anyway)

I know no shabraque, but that is so boring, so some will get a light cavalry version with pointed tail.

But that story about the conical shako. Where did that come from? I do have some from Carlist War conversions, but they still look like 1830-40's fashion. I accept armies outside France wore such (eg Portugal, Britain, Hannover, Prussia etc) but conical shakos did not appear in France for 20 years after Napoleon….surely!

I accept all the illustrators, but surely reflecting contemporary styles….1830-40s.

This one single unit adopted an experimental shako style that was not seen again for two decades…?

Next thing you'll tell me that LHO was the only gunman in Dealey Plaza that day, or that NASA really did land on the moon (actually something tells me that, maybe…oh forget it….is there any CONTEMPORARY evidence for this anachronistic outfit?

OH GOD, now comes the embarrassment. I seem to have crossposted onto a fantasy forum. You cannot reverse things here I have found……

I have always understood that it was cylindrical for the 2nd regiment, not conical.

Jurgen

Logically yes, that was what hussars and chasseurs
wore, but we are meant to accept that this one unit wore something that was not then seen for another two decades!

Many an illustrator insists on it. But they were working two decades later…………

Many illustrators working in the 1830s and 1840s depicted cylindrical shakoes as conical; this just seems to be another example of that.

Jurgen

I agree entirely. But see Osprey or Jouineau, or Historex who insist that this unit (2nd Eclaireurs of course) did somehow, in isolation, miraculously anticipate fashions two decades in advance.

Or are they just using illustrations from artists working long after the unit ceased to exist, who reflect contemporary military styles?

You might argue, who cares? Well, it seems this is a long standing debate! Could we finally settle this here?

Are you asking about a shako that looked like ….

That is the shako rouleau. Very fashionable among French hussars and some other light cavalry formations (like the éclaireurs) from late 1813 through 1815.

Many contemporary examples,

link

- Sasha

Paul :)

Sasha and Paul thanks to both of you.

Perfectly illustrates my dilemma. The cylindrical shako rouleau picture is a great help….and logically that is what they must have worn.

Leliepvre was 100 years old in 2008 and was a gifted artist (you can tell from this brilliant picture which I have never seen before). Do not confuse him with a similar name, just lacking the "p"…you end up with lots of very bare ladies. (not that I have anything against bare ladies mind you).

He advised and illustrated for Historex and their old website insists that he was equally adamant about the strange…anachronistic…cylindrical shako.

I'm going to have both. Some will get a shabraque as well….it looks better, even if it did not exist!

Hi Deadhead,

Which Perry Carlists are you using? I am still a little perplexed which figures offer the most straightforward conversion, assuming the cylindrical shako, as I just so happen to have a pile of those lying around from my Perry French Hussar plastic kit builds. I have decided upon using my spare Wargames Foundry French Franco-Prussian War horses, as they seem like the simplest fit. The Eclaireur-Dragoons have offered me a puzzle for some time. I've considered a Perry plastics legs and torso swap combination, but was not excited about the prospect of having a bunch of leftover mis-matched kit parts.

Jarhead

Jarhead

I used ISA 72 and 73, the Isabellino early Polish lancers.

Much work to convert, esp grinding off the waist belts at their back, adding skirts and turnbacks, grinding down the shakos etc. But, if you do want to try the conical shako that so many insist on……..I mounted them on Perry ACW plastic horses. English Hussars might have seemed better as the portmanteau is a better rounded shape (I must still fix that) and the harness is light cavalry. However, much suggestion that this unit had a simpler harness.

Here are a few pics of some of my figures, in undercoat only. There are Carlist figures with swapped heads from French Hussars, Carlist figures with their own conical shako and the added decoration on the front and Perry Chasseurs in cylindrical shako. Challenge with the last is to convert the jacket from lapels to Kinski style. Much grinding and risk of damaging the figures….as I know to my cost!

If you want an easy conversion, why not the Perry hussar heads onto the ACW bodies? Plastic so much easier to convert…much cheaper. All you need is to add the skirts and turnbacks, if not too fussed about anything beyond superficial appearance. Perry dragoons, just take off the lapels, the gauntlets and the boot toppings with a hobby drill and grinder at low speed. Easiest of the lot, but I wanted metal!

Hi Deadhead:

This is terrific info, and very timely. I was about to revert to my default Marine Corps mindset of finding the most difficult way of doing something and then unflinchingly committing to it, no matter how inefficient. I happen to have some spare Perry dragoon plastic carcasses lying about for one of too many uncompleted projects, so it's time blow the dust off the dremel.

Thanks,

Jarhead

If you do use plastic dragoons and have a Dremel (I have two!)the conversion is a cinch. The boot tops ground off give you a tight fitting overall effect that is better than I have on these metals. The buttoned overalls for the French hussars would be wrong. You do have to grind off the lapels for the single breasted Kinski, but hat is so much easier in plastic. Light cavalry sabres, but no sabretache. Cylindrical shako head straight onto the torso. Again remove gauntlets. Might think to use hussar right arm though, as you get light cavalry sabre and cuffs then. I did one this way in minutes, but was determined I wanted metals.

Hope to see your work posted here. Thing about USMC, they do get things done in the end!

Like British stovepipe shakos, which are also sometimes depicted as 'conical', the confusion probably stems from men like me with big heads (steady…). They made them in one standard size and the headband would need to be stretched to accommodate larger heads. The headband would then be larger than the diameter of the cylinder, hence the tapering effect.

Now that I had not considered. Never thought it likely that this one unit adopted something so radically different from contemporary (similar) styles for Chasseurs and hussars, but which was very much the fashion not until two decades later. Always suggested to me later artists working from secondary references or what was then the accepted style.

The same effect imho you could see with the austrian grenzer klobuk. These also look sometimes with a tapering effect

great conversions, well done

Thanks for that. Really appreciated from an expert. I am still new (newly back I guess) to this. (My conversions were 1970s Airfix plastic and I had one single Eclaireur…and he had a lance pennon)

Started painting today. I will end up with every variant ever described though.

Conical or cylindrical shakos
Simple saddles or pointed shabraques (I know, but they look so good)
Portmanteaux/valise in green or in crimson
Shako tops with black rings or aurore bands
Belts in white or black leather

At least I have resisted the pennants on the lances(but it is tempting)

You get the idea. I am trying to accommodate every version ever described…in just 12 figures. Funny, my early impression is that the Carlist War lancers are turning out better than the chasseurs in cylindrical shakos!

Shaving the shako ornament off the Perry hussars for the Spanish guys was……tricky. (Much swearing) The Cap lines (from the brass wire off a Rioja) was far easier, but the superglue stuck to everything but the figures

We'll see