Dobber | 19 Jul 2014 7:29 a.m. PST |
Hey all, I have recently purchased "Engage" by red wyrvn games. I like it so far, but I was wondering what else was out there for ship on ship games. I envisage a scale where one player controls 1 heavy cruiser/battleship or a small squadron of destroyers. I know there is Starfleet battles and Federation Commander, but I'm not sure if those are my cup of tea. I would also like something with custom ship build rules. Yes, this will be for my upcoming Star Trek Project (TOS most likely.) thanks guys, Dobber |
Coelacanth | 19 Jul 2014 7:38 a.m. PST |
Star Trek: Starship Tactical Combat Simulator (FASA 1983) link link This was designed as a part of FASA's Star Trek RPG line; I don't remember if it had custom design rules or not. Ron |
IUsedToBeSomeone | 19 Jul 2014 7:51 a.m. PST |
To be honest, Federation Commander really does sound like it would match your aims. You can download a sample rulebook with ship data here: PDF link to try it out if you haven't seen it. Mike |
captainquirk | 19 Jul 2014 8:01 a.m. PST |
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Rudi the german | 19 Jul 2014 2:21 p.m. PST |
Battlestations from Gorilla games. link Greetings |
Lion in the Stars | 19 Jul 2014 4:19 p.m. PST |
Squadron Strike by Ad Astra has roll-your-own rules, and can even go full 3d, Newtonian movement. (Ad Astra also makes the game Attack Vector: Tactical, but designing a ship for AVT requires calculus. Squadron Strike's ship design spreadsheet makes Excel squeal for mercy, and it's simpler than AVT) You can get electronic copies of Jovian Chronicles from RPGdrivethru, I think the construction rules are in the Mechanical Catalog. And there's Full Thrust, if you prefer lower detail and the capability of running more ships. Since you're running in the Star Trek universe anyway, my recommendation would be to go ahead and grab Federation Commander. Star Fleet Battles is also based off the old Franz Joseph blueprints, but has so many rules that games take a while (and often come down to who knows the rules better). As long as you stick to TOS Trek (including the animated series), you will be well-served by ADB's games. While ADB's games don't have a design system, there are enough ships and variants already existing that you can probably find something close to your idea that already has stats and points figured out! There are probably something like 300 different major ship classes for each political entity in the Star Fleet Universe, not counting various refits that are on each individual ship class-sheet that you can apply or not apply. Then there are fighters and Fast Patrol ships, and lots of varieties of fighters at that. Most races only have 2 different Fast Patrol ship types (one 'Interceptor' early/development types, one primary Fast Patrol ship), though some have a more advanced version of the Fast Patrol ship with weapons and systems modules that you can swap around. Not sure what to suggest if you want to go for the movies or TNG/DS9/Voyager era Trek. |
TheBeast | 19 Jul 2014 4:49 p.m. PST |
ADB does give you about as good as you could want for ship-on-ship fiddliness, and with the variety of FC and SFB WITH the ported versions for A Call to Arms and Starmada. Next step up would be the FASA, which could allow several people to run a single ship, as it was to support an RPG. Not my cuppa, mind you, for any of the above. Doug |
Micman | 19 Jul 2014 10:51 p.m. PST |
ADB is also working on the version 1.2 of A Call to Arms Star Fleet. I have not heard of a of a release date yet. They took it back after Mongoose dropped it(big surprise). It is a simpler game then either SFB or FC. The new ship line Starline 2500 is larger then the older SL 2400 with much better detail. If you are not in a hurry you might weight for it's release. Star Fleet Battles- Uber detail on the lines of Advanced Squad Leader. Federation Commander- Simpler than SFB but with much of the flavor, but only 10% of the rules Take the time to read through the link that Black Hat posted. ACTA-SF – Much simpler than SFB No energy allocation. An interesting way to adjust power to do special functions. Of course the new rules could change much of rules. Good luck with you search. |
TheBeast | 20 Jul 2014 4:59 a.m. PST |
And the Starmada port? Doug Edit: Just to be clear, I'm a huge FT fanboy. And while I actually enjoy playing single ship duels, I'm less inclined to bark orders for individual systems. Or, plan by counting hexes. |
Chef Lackey Rich | 20 Jul 2014 6:10 a.m. PST |
ACTA-SF is designed for squadron/fleet actions, and I doubt ADB will change that when they "fix" the rules. It's probably the least suitable of any of the rules suggested for starship duels. I'd stick to Engage if I were you. None of the other candidates are better for what you want to do, unless you're looking for a heavy roleplay and personal combat element and some campy silliness with your starship combat, in which case Battlestations is worth a look. The market could really use a few more options for high-detail games that aren't as boggy as the ADB spinoffs, but dueling games don't sell minis very well so there's little impetus to design that sort of thing. |
Lion in the Stars | 20 Jul 2014 11:59 a.m. PST |
The market could really use a few more options for high-detail games that aren't as boggy as the ADB spinoffs, Squadron Strike and Jovian Chronicles are both pretty slick in play. It's the designing-your-ship phase that takes some work. Now, JC isn't an ADB spinoff, it's a close movement-mechanic cousin to Full Thrust. Squadron Strike (and Attack Vector Tactical) are sorta ADB spinoffs. Their author is a very good Starfleet Battles player (national champ many years ago), and reading through the Federation Commander quick-start rules SqnSt and AVT both share the 8 'impulses' per turn mechanic. but dueling games don't sell minis very well so there's little impetus to design that sort of thing. I think we might be able to see a good dueling game if someone in Hollywood made a good scifi series that featured single-ship duels or small squadron engagements. Gotta have the inspiration to make a good game take off. I'm kinda picturing a setting like the Master and Commander books or the real-life versions. One ship a long way from any support, showing the flag and otherwise sailing in harm's way, chasing pirates, Barbary corsairs, etc. |
billclo | 20 Jul 2014 1:36 p.m. PST |
What about designing ships with Traveller/High Guard, roll dice for each weapon system, and skip the role-playing aspect (unless you like the idea of say the bridge officer's skills affecting the fight via easier die rolls)? You'd have to custom design the weapons to reflect the universe you want to play in, but that shouldn't be too hard. It'd be a lot of work designing the ships at the start, but some people like the design aspect of things. If anything, you probably wouldn't WANT to play more than a few ships per side so as to minimize the dice rolling. |
Stogie | 20 Jul 2014 6:45 p.m. PST |
Full Thrust is pretty good, and is structured for large ships with as many/few as you want. Rules are available here: shop.groundzerogames.co.uk and are FREE!! There is also a light version and a couple races. The figs are pretty nice too. |
tkdguy | 20 Jul 2014 11:23 p.m. PST |
Starmada can be played as a duel between two starships or a small group. If you use the NOVA version, having each player control a single ship would be a good idea during a tutorial session. |
daoloth | 21 Jul 2014 5:19 a.m. PST |
The FASA "Star Trek: Starship Tactical Combat Simulator" did indeed have custom design rules. Do a web search for "Star trek: ship construction manual" and you should find details. Babylon 5 Wars is another system that supports star ship duels, you would not want engagements above 4-5 ships a side if you wanted to finish in a remotely reasonable length of time anyway. There are no custom design rules for that system though. |
Tim White | 21 Jul 2014 8:37 a.m. PST |
The only currently produced game with its own design rules that I know of with enough depth per ship for duels is Squadron Strike. I've posted some not-trek 2D ships over on SCN (note these are about as simple as it gets in SS – way easier to go more complex): link But SS is certainly at the same level of complexity of FC/SFB. So if you were shying away from these games, then you might not find SS to be your cup of tea. I agree with Chief Lacky Rich in that Engage is probably want you want to stick with. |
Dobber | 27 Jul 2014 1:31 p.m. PST |
sorry it took me so long to get back, real life is busy. Many many thanks to all for the responses. I have gotten the free intro to fed commander and found the tactical combat simulator. I think I have some reading to do. again many thanks for all the recommendations, and I will be looking at them all. |