"Who Has Aircraft Carriers Today - " Topic

Don't forget Iran's time-travelling, submersible, stealth carrier.

The UK doesn't have any aircraft carriers.

HMS Illustrious, an amphibious assault craft (LPH) – not an aircraft carrier, is out of commission. HMS Ocean is the only LPH currently in service, and has no fixed wing capability.

Which is all moot, as Britain doesn't have any fixed wing carrier aircraft in commission either.

Can't comment on the veracity of the rest of the chart, but I suppose it allows the USN to wave their ****** at the rest of the world. Which was your intent, I presume?

If so, well done. You win.

Milites beat me to it!

Or, an even "better question" might be: isn't this a wargaming-miniatures site where posters should refrain from injecting their own political opinions?

Interestingly, (or maybe not), a woman I work with was just telling me that she -- a software developer -- and indeed her entire family, worked on the former Varyag, now Liaoning. Apparently the construction project was the largest employer in Ukraine. She seemed a little annoyed at the price the Chinese paid for the hull -- less than a Manhattan apartment these days. That picture seems to be cut and pasted from the Google Maps shot of the Liaoning in Dalian: link

Randy51 -- not just "" opinions!

Non political But the definition of an CV is kinds shady I mean you left out the ,Austrailians ,ROK and the JMSDF. I mean their platforms have the capability to operate Fixed wing AC.

This is a wargames site. Legion 4's posting is on the money in terms of our interests. No need to take offense. I enjoy banter and Americans are my friends, not my rivals.

"A better question might be: "?" And in a completely unrelated question, who has the most aircraft Carriers?"

And all this aids wargaming how?

@History PhD – For me and I dare say many others who play modern naval wargames / boardgames it adds a new dimension to my collection of the "Fleet" board game series (2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th) – all excellent fun games :)

HMS Illustrious, an amphibious assault craft (LPH) – not an aircraft carrier, is out of commission. HMS Ocean is the only LPH currently in service, and has no fixed wing capability.

HMS Illustrious is in commission as HMS Ocean is currently undergoing a refit, the only reason HMS Illustrious doesn't have a fixed wing capability is due to HM Government selling off the Harrier fleet for spares.

Marcus Maximus, the OP will help you collect the fleet. I'm talking about all the rest of this

Yep, unless you have operational, jet aircraft for your naval vessel, it isn't an "aircraft carrier".

Perhaps a "through-deck cruiser", "helo-carrier", or "amphibious assault support vessel", but not an "aircraft carrier……..

Yes, the chart is out of date. It's a shame that all of our countries governments only seem capable of combining technology, finances and effort of will on this sort of scale through the military machine.

link

HMS Illustrious is in commission as HMS Ocean is currently undergoing a refit, the only reason HMS Illustrious doesn't have a fixed wing capability is due to HM Government selling off the Harrier fleet for spares.

So to be clear, the UK does have 1 aircraft carrier, but zero fixed wing aircraft to fly off it?

Well that's just dandy then – why should NATO tremble!

I sometimes think we should ask CoCo the Clown to review British defence policy and at least point in a coherent direction….

As Kaiser Bill said in exasperation. "Then we shall retire and put ourselves under the protection of Siam."

So to be clear, the UK does have 1 aircraft carrier, but zero fixed wing aircraft to fly off it?

At the moment yes, but it's due to retire this year when HMS Ocean comes out of re-fit.

As for the rest of your post – I have to agree.

Just don't mention Maritime Patrol Aircraft.

HMS Illustrious is in commission as HMS Ocean is currently undergoing a refit,

I mixed the names up.Creeping senescence…:)

So to be clear, the UK does have 1 aircraft carrier, but zero fixed wing aircraft to fly off it?

Well that's just dandy then – why should NATO tremble!

I sometimes think we should ask CoCo the Clown to review British defence policy and at least point in a coherent direction….

It's not an aircraft carrier though, even the Royal Navy don't call it an aircraft carrier.

You must be familiar with this site link

HMS Queen Elizabeth has just been launched, she's due to enter service in 2017. The RN might have some aircraft to put on her by then…

…or not link

Er, have you forgotten the new (planeless) Queen Elizabeth fleet carrier, almost in service.

Just need some half decent planes for it…

Er, have you forgotten the new (planeless) Queen Elizabeth fleet carrier, almost in service.

Just need some half decent planes for it…

No, I haven't. Read all of my post ;)

Guys .. are you kidding ?!?!?! OMG !!!!! There was nothing political or flag waving, etc., about the post !!! … daubere, Which was NOT MY intent to berate, etc.! YOU presume WRONG ! daubere you are a bit "touchy" about a subject that no one needs to be offended over. Your opinion or mine has nothing to do with the post. It's just an inventory … And for Gaming purposes, it just list. There are other posts about who makes and the number of AFVs and aircraft militaries of the world have, was the same sort of intent… TMP link TMP link My post was just showing who has CVs in the world … as I said for gaming purpose it is just a list ! Here's another about the 35 biggest armies in the world – TMP link Does than offend you too ?
I think daubere you need to take a personal look about your attitude ! Again, my post has nothing to do with "Who's Dog is bigger ?! … That is what you read into it … Try decaf man ! Oh I liked the picture ! And I'm sorry if the list is out of date or inaccurate… was unaware of that at the time. So if nothing else the thread gives us gamers a chance to update our inventories … based on comments posted here … I didn't realize, the UK had limited or no aircraft that could, would, be deployable from CVs … This plays into another post about the PRC's ability to invade Taiwan … I guess, the UK will not have a CV in the fight … TMP link …

Wow!

Try decaf man

Physician, heal thyself.

Are you kidding again !?! I'm amazed, and I'm not the only one it appears, to think my post was made to offend … any one ?!?!

Bye then.

The only reason the US's flat-top gator-freighters get to count as carriers is the Harrier. And most of them don't carry but half a dozen Harriers for their normal fixed-wing complement.

The new America-class can only handle 20 F35Bs, while a Ford-class can handle 90 aircraft of all types, not just STOVL.

The Queen Elizabeth-class carriers can handle 40-50 aircraft of all types. This shows that a relatively small increase in ship size makes for a huge increase in capability. The QE carriers are only 100 feet shorter than the Fords, and yet can only carry half the number of aircraft!

No, I haven't. Read all of my post ;)

Sorry Daubere! – I was scanning through all the posts when I posted and must have missed that! :-D

Russia has no aircraft carriers either – they class their existing one as a cruiser.

Japan operates a destroyer that happens to have a flat top and carries lot of helicopters and has ability to be convered to fixed wing ops.

The America class LHAs are really aircraft carriers – "expanded aviation facilities" coupled with no well dock and reduced facilities for ground operation types.

Personally I think anything whose primary purpose is deploying aircraft should be an aircraft carrier but very often politics intervenes.

It's the same thing with the idiotic modern conventions around classifying destroyers, frigates and corvettes.

To the Germans everything is a frigate.

To the Iranians, Americans and Japanese everything is a destroyer even though it might be a 1,500 ton ship (Moudge class) or a 14,500 ton ship (DDG1000 Zumwalt class) or a 27,000 ton ship (Izumo class helicopter destroyer).

To the Israelis, a light frigate is a corvette (over 1,000 tons). To the Indians a medium frigate is a corvette (over 3,000 tons). To many other countries ships under 1,000 tons are corvettes. In the poorer ones, a corvette is an ancient minesweeper or large tug boat used for patrol duties!

The US has some cruisers (Ticonderoga) which are now smaller than latest destroyers (Zumwalt class). Bare in mind Ticonderoga class were originally classed as destroyers but then the US freaked out at how many more cruisers the Soviets had so they simply relabelled the Ticonderoga class destroyers as cruisers. Problem solved.

Oh and to make like interesting, there's now large Offshore Patrol Vessels which are the size of a medium frigate but usually lacking missile armament but packing same gun armament as a frigate.

Basically I have no idea what constitutes a destroyer, a frigate or a corvette these days.

In fact in the 21st century we have this state of affairs:

Corvette – ships of up to 3,500 tons displacement. Roles: anything from general patrol to specialised ASW etc.

Frigate – ships between 1,000 tons and 10,000 tons displacement. Roles: anything from general patrol to specialised ASW, air defence etc.

Destroyer – ships between 1,000 tons and 27,000 tons displacement. Roles: anything from general patrol to specialised ASW, aircraft operations (both fixed and rotary), air defence etc.

Cruiser – ships between 8,000 tons and 62,000 tons displacement. Roles: anything from general patrol to specialised ASW, aircraft operations ((both fixed and rotary), air defence etc.

Aircraft carrier – depends on how you swing politically. :P

Are we as clear as mud?

Nah – Frigate is primarily ASW, Destroyer is primarily Air Defence. Easy!

Nah – Frigate is primarily ASW, Destroyer is primarily Air Defence. Easy!

Except the Spanish, Germans and French operate Air Defence frigates (Álvaro de Bazán, Sashcen class and Horizon class), the Indians have large ASW corvettes (over 3,000 ton displacement)), the Chinese have operated Air Defence Frigates etc etc.

To make it confusing whilst the French refer to their destroyers as frigates, they get D penant numbers which are used for destroyers. This includes some large ASW ships as well as as Air Defence ships).

And US Arleigh Burke class are multirole destroyers whilst Zumwalt class are multi role but primarily for land attack with cruise missiles and guns. Ticonderoga cruisers are similar to Arleigh Burke in terms of multirole mission.

Oh and everything in Japanese Maritime Self Defence Force is a destroyer including helicopter carriers, destroyers and what anyone else would call a frigate. Even corvettes/lighter frigates are classed as destroyer escorts but in displacement are closer to a frigate or corvette depending on who you talk to(2500 tons).

In fact most modern warships are all fully multi-role. There are air warfare destroyers/frigates but even they are usually multirole.

As stated modern post WWII classifications are confused at best. And since 1991 it's just got nuttier asm any different countries started building and fielding larger warships.

I've got 5 in the loft, but they are very small. Does that count? :-)
Which leads on to the question how many aircraft carriers does the average naval wargamer have?

I have two, one per side in "Battleship"….

To place the America class (or any of the other gator freighters) in the same category as the super carriers is just plain idiotic (or showing an appalling lack of knowledge). The key is the MISSION. The LHAs are linked to the amphib mission and little else. The super carriers are multi-mission. To assume they're both in the same class is just plain daffed.

Which leads on to the question how many aircraft carriers does the average naval wargamer have?

Probably like WW2 gamers and Tiger tanks, more than ever existed in any one battle…

I wonder what that chart will look like in 50 or even 30 years time?

If the current economic situation continues, 30 years from now no one will be able to afford but a few CVs, and SSBs, if any …