Winston Smith | 09 Jul 2014 10:06 p.m. PST |
1) Published rules with high production values. "Gaming was much better with mimeographed rules!" 2) Slick magazines. "Harrumph!" (See comments above also. ) 3) Plastic figures. "Why do you need all these poses anyway?" 4) Tournaments. "I don't care if there are 300 people playing them at Historicon. They can't be enjoying themselves! And I certainly wouldn't be! So let's ban them!" 5) Anyone playing anything but Napoleonics. "Did I ever tell you about the time I took the Middle Guard up against Von Runstedt's entire corps at Ctapzrn Blausyadt? Well, first I had to
" 6) Kids today who would rather play a video game than sit in reserve for 4 hours as Bolton's division at Second Ball's Bluff. |
Silent Pool | 09 Jul 2014 10:32 p.m. PST |
I hate the word hate, followed by modern gamers who wear wrist jewellery or cuffs (that seemingly target my Prince Rupert Lifeguards with regular monotony, Gazzola!). But a firm grasp of the rules, tactics, and good generalship always ensures these loathsome hounds are soon routed! |
Sparker | 09 Jul 2014 10:39 p.m. PST |
Well as the Old Fart wargamer par excellence, let me say that I love plastic figures, so long as they are hard plastic and don't have too many parts! I'm also not averse to slick production published rules, as I am a staunch Black Powder/Hail Caesar/Pike'n Shotte man! Games other than Napoleonics? Well my last game was set at the battle of Kursk:
link Tournaments? Played in one, had a good time, in no hurry to try another, but if they attract people into the hobby and keep my FLGS in business – why not? So long as people keep in sight the fact that real battles were rarely organised on a points basis
Kids? Well, couldn't eat a whole one
Matter of fact we regularly have a couple of teenagers play in our larger games. And as far as I'm aware, with perhaps one exception, all the wargamers of my vintage are similary open in their wargaming and do welcome change
I would however be mildly opposed to such a needlessly offensive poll being posted
.. |
Martin Rapier | 09 Jul 2014 11:09 p.m. PST |
I will certainly vote for 1 and 2, but all proper wargamers started with plastic figures (as there wasn't anything else) and continue to do so in varying degrees. Harrumph. |
Glengarry5 | 09 Jul 2014 11:24 p.m. PST |
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x42brown | 09 Jul 2014 11:27 p.m. PST |
7/ Young whipper-snappers telling me what old fart gamers hate. Martin My first gaming army was tin flats with others using hollow cast lead. Plastic gaming figures only came about in the mid 1950s. x42 |
David Manley | 09 Jul 2014 11:41 p.m. PST |
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Michael Hatch | 10 Jul 2014 12:03 a.m. PST |
Does 53 qualify me? Failing eyesight
Rules in which sometime you need to roll high except for the times when you need to roll low
.. Cranky gamers who generally don't like people but need them to show up to play his game
.. People who confuse luck with skill
. People who sometimes forget we are playing with toy soldiers
. People who lack grace in victory or defeat
What do I love?
Well presented figures and tables. Games that make you think. Grace under pressure. Making that impossible dice roll that will completely mess up the enemy. Especially after they have advised you that you shouldn't try that move/action/stunt because you have almost no hope of pulling it off. Gamers you always have a good time with; win, lose or draw
Michael in Cloverdale. |
x42brown | 10 Jul 2014 1:56 a.m. PST |
Does 53 qualify me? No. x42 |
sillypoint | 10 Jul 2014 2:12 a.m. PST |
Store person who asks what army you play/collect
.. What army you got, that I don't have! Lol. |
Martin Rapier | 10 Jul 2014 2:18 a.m. PST |
Perhaps we should have a quiz on how long you need to have been wargaming to be considered an OF wargamer? 1. 30+ years 2. 40+ years 3. 50+ years 4. 60+ years 5. 70+ years |
Inner Sanctum | 10 Jul 2014 2:29 a.m. PST |
1) Idiot posts 2) poor value bland rules desinged to sell overpriced miniatures 3)poor value plastic and resin figures, the wargame equivalent of alcopops, marketed at kids. When a youngster tells me that a stick thin, 10mm, hardly detailed resin model the height of a tea spoon only costs £20.00 GBP |
skippy0001 | 10 Jul 2014 3:34 a.m. PST |
61 here. Young kids who ask questions because they're too lazy to punch three buttons on their tricorder cellphone eyepad to get a detailed answer. At a family reunion there was a conversation about comic superheroes among my nephews and grand nephews
neither knew the heroes they were talking about. Game wise, when I'm told I win by luck and they win by skill-classic gamer hubris. And the lack of patience and gamer etiquette. |
Mallen | 10 Jul 2014 4:46 a.m. PST |
1) Guys who won't ever bring beer but always drink yours. Conversely, a bunch of us bought a fridge for the guy who always hosted everything and kept it stocked! 2) Having to explain your hobby to other people, who, say, play a lot of golf. 3). Wargamers, of any age, who regard winning and losing a game of paramount importance and derive personal self-esteem from it. 4). Jesuits who pick apart your painting inaccuracies. Yeah, I know I am using 1905 Russians to stand in as 1912 Bulgarians, so sue me. 5). Wargamers who always seem to field the best army of the era. Big deal---I can win with Frederick's army of 1740-1760 too. Try rolling out some 1745 Dutch! 6). The fact that every single campaign I have started since 1988 has collapsed like the 2014 Red Sox after about two battles because no one will send in map moves, or, more likely, because I have seen something shiny and am off to the races on a new project. Maori Wars, anyone? 7). When my fine new state-of-the-art castings get routinely crushed by 50 year old Minifigs. Roolz ought to have a modifier for that sort of outrage. 8). Anything written by, published by, read by or even contemplated by WRG. I have had a popsicle headache since 1982 from trying to figure out the correct modifiers from reading phrases like "-1 for surprised or Spanish." What if you are surprised AND Spanish? Is that a -2? And don't get me started on EMPIRE. Screw it. Time to sell everything off and buy a set of clubs. |
Otto the Great | 10 Jul 2014 5:04 a.m. PST |
"Game wise, when I'm told I win by luck and they win by skill-classic gamer hubris." After winning a game, one of my wargame buddies commented that I was lucky. I just smiled and said, "I know, that happens a lot." It went right over his head. Another guy in the group wound constantly complain about his bad luck. So in one game,I made a point to talk about the odds and the results of his rolls. About half the time he rolled pretty good, go figure. |
woundedknee | 10 Jul 2014 5:07 a.m. PST |
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PKay Inc | 10 Jul 2014 5:46 a.m. PST |
1. Pulp games 2. Pirate games 3. Superhero games 4. Gangland games 5. Polls |
Timotheous | 10 Jul 2014 5:48 a.m. PST |
I doubt that I truly qualify as an old fart, being only 47, but I would have to agree with Mike Hatch's entry, poor eyesight. I suffered a torn retina earlier this year, which doesn't help with depth perception. I would also agree with being jaded about the new shiny, especially over niche periods. Why would I care to represent the Carlist Wars on my table? It just looks like Napoleonics with different uniforms to me. I have too many figures to paint already! |
Howler | 10 Jul 2014 6:25 a.m. PST |
Napoleonics. Have no interest at all. Sci if skirmish, I'm all in? |
Tazman49684 | 10 Jul 2014 6:35 a.m. PST |
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snodipous | 10 Jul 2014 7:38 a.m. PST |
Really only needs one option: 1) The idea that someone, somewhere, might be having fun in a way they don't understand or approve of. |
Green Tiger | 10 Jul 2014 7:56 a.m. PST |
Online discussion forums… |
20thmaine | 10 Jul 2014 8:19 a.m. PST |
Don't hate nothin' 'cept hatred : you game your way, I'll game mine and we'll both have fun. Just maybe not together. I can live with that. |
20thmaine | 10 Jul 2014 8:23 a.m. PST |
To expand : mimeographed rules – love them plastic figures – as long as they're 20mm love them slick magazines – they can be ok or dreadful – paper quality is not the main determinant of quality tournemants – not a fan – but by all means if you like 'em go to it with a vigour Napoleonics – at best ambivalent Computer games – never really managed to get much enthusiasm. Early shoot-em-ups were quite fun, but I've done that now. |
20thmaine | 10 Jul 2014 8:27 a.m. PST |
@Terremant – the thief's mistake there was to see the shield as a shield. The sort of thing used in melee. As the party was under missile attack he should have seen the shield as merely a pavise – behind which he could have legitimately hidden. In fact he could have set it against a light source and then attempted to hide in shadows – if succesful no-one would have shot at him See – it's really not a shield : it either a pavise or a shade producer. |
John the OFM | 10 Jul 2014 8:35 a.m. PST |
Thief had a low Intelligence Roll, or he could have figured that out himself. |
John the OFM | 10 Jul 2014 8:37 a.m. PST |
THIS Old Fart is very round heeled and lax about the "28mm +/- 3mm" issue. |
20thmaine | 10 Jul 2014 8:39 a.m. PST |
@Green Tiger – yeah…they're the pits…. |
Winston Smith | 10 Jul 2014 8:41 a.m. PST |
Ahem. This was intended to be satirical, making fun of loud mouthed old farts. I had hoped that others would join in with as much seriousness as I thought I conveyed, but some took it seriously. Oh well…. |
Frederick | 10 Jul 2014 8:54 a.m. PST |
Rules lawyers! Mind you, everyone hates rules lawyers |
Martin Rapier | 10 Jul 2014 9:01 a.m. PST |
"I had hoped that others would join in with as much seriousness as I thought I conveyed, but some took it seriously." We are OFs, of course we take things seriously. We are simulating conflict and bringing history to life by playing with toy soldiers. Harrumph. |
20thmaine | 10 Jul 2014 9:05 a.m. PST |
I had hoped that others would join in with as much seriousness as I thought I conveyed, but some took it seriously.
I see no great seriousness….perhaps I should put the telescope to the other eye. Rule 1 of threads – it goes the way you think up until you submit the Opening Post. After that…lap of the gods…lap of the gods…. |
mbsparta | 10 Jul 2014 9:10 a.m. PST |
Caesarian Romans vs Parthians |
Intrepide | 10 Jul 2014 10:19 a.m. PST |
I'm good with 1 – 3. I would add: Reading glasses. Constant rules changes and churning. Boxed franchise games derailing creativity and novelty. |
Glenn M | 10 Jul 2014 12:33 p.m. PST |
I'm probably younger than half your kids. But I would lean towards most old fart wargamers hate other old fart wargamers. That's my experience anyways. |
Aviator | 10 Jul 2014 3:22 p.m. PST |
Figure manufactures who insist on producing yet another bunch of zombies rather than a figure set portraying Washington crossing the Delaware! |
peterx | 10 Jul 2014 4:10 p.m. PST |
Old farts? Do I qualify? Hhmmm? I am 52 and have been playing wargames since 1975. 1. This old fart dislikes polls about old farts. 2. This old fart dislikes spotty, snotty young farts (or old farts) who are rules lawyers, who try win at any cost, who lack grace and kindness when losing or winning, and who have a big chip on their shoulder. 3. This old fart loves young farts (and other old farts and medium farts) who are kind, generous. have fun playing the game, make funny comments, use funny accents, are creative, and willing to learn a new game. 4. This old fart is thankful for relatively inexpensive hard plastic miniatures without so many parts. 5.This old fart is thankful for game-masters who love the hobby, paint their miniatures, alter the rules for the better, create beautiful tables with gorgeous scenery, and run fast and fun games. 6. This old fart is tired of miniatures companies that overwhelmingly overprice each model (up and over 45.00 oer mini), continuously change the basic and additional army books, charge too much for the basic rules, destroy your favorite army with rules changes that you spent years and hundreds of dollars creating, outpace inflation by 100% to 500% for their minis, and disregard their veteran players and their favorite games and armies. Game companies that are arrogant and greedy. 7. This old fart likes beautifully painted models and regular painted models and any custom models. 8. This old fart likes to drink a beer with a friend and laugh while playing a fun and furious game. 9. This old fart likes playing WWII, Vietnam War, pirates, OGRE, sci-fi, pulp, secret agents, post-apocalyptic wasteland, zombie, Spanish Civil War, gladiator, and other games. 10. This old fart dislikes leaving Historicon, Cold Wars, and Fall-In. 11. This old fart dislikes running out of money to buy minis and scenery at a game convention. |
Wizard Whateley | 10 Jul 2014 4:45 p.m. PST |
Anything but Napoleonics? What would that be? |
Feet up now | 10 Jul 2014 6:33 p.m. PST |
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etotheipi | 11 Jul 2014 3:01 a.m. PST |
2) Having to explain your hobby to other people, who, say, play a lot of golf. Well, last year I spent $400 USD on the perfect sand wedge. It was a bit steep, but well worth it. … amateurs … :) |
20thmaine | 11 Jul 2014 3:40 a.m. PST |
What's wrong with Brussels – lovely city, great beer, good military museum. |
mgdavey | 11 Jul 2014 10:40 a.m. PST |
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Broadsword | 11 Jul 2014 11:30 a.m. PST |
Change without improvement. |
Scorpio | 18 Jul 2014 12:56 p.m. PST |
Any music or movies or TV shows that aren't at least twenty years old. |
J Womack 94 | 19 Aug 2014 5:08 p.m. PST |
I'm not old enough to be an old fart yet. I am a middle aged grouch, though. |
OSchmidt | 20 Aug 2014 8:04 a.m. PST |
Oh My… This thread is wonderful. Until I read it I thought I was the only one in the world who thought that way. Specifics. Dear Mallen I see many of the guys in your group are in my group as well. Strange they never mentioned you. Dear Terrament. Hey wait a minute! The guys in my group are in your group as well!!!! As for me, I'm 66 and got into the hobby 1n 1962. Gone through all the phases, I don't hate much any more that can be part of a silly, stupid, unserious hobby like playing with toy soldiers. Those who get all obnoxious abut it generally don't get invited for the next game. Otto |
Dasher | 05 Nov 2014 3:57 p.m. PST |
Hearing tired old bad ideas we saw collapse thirty years ago exalted like somebody just now thought of them for the first time. i.e.: Pretentious Noob: "These rules are so much better than your crappy old rules! These rules model space combat in THREE DIMENSIONS!!!" My Buddy: "That's so 1970's." |