"Define Early/Mid/Late WW II? " Topic

I know that this is a device used in FOW to determine unit availability in a game, but the term early/mid/late World War II was around prior to BattleFront making use of the phrase and has been used to describe different lines of miniatures. Where do you think the divide falls in terms of dates for the conflict? Does it vary depending on which theater of the war we are talking about. Do you count the Spanish Civil War, the Winter War, the Japanese invasion of China as early or separate conflicts? What about Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia? Clearly the invasion of Poland starts things off or is at least one of many.

This is purely an academic exercise and I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer in this regard.

At the risk of being euro-centric, "early" is Poland-Norway-France.

"mid" is after France and before Normandy.

"late" is Normandy onwards.

But those aren't terribly scientific :)

Early War is 1939-1941 including the early parts of Barbarossa until the Wehrmacht were halted at the gates of Moscow. Some might even stretch it through the spring of '42 when dunkelgelb replaced panzer grau as the standard scheme.

Mid War is from 1942 until mid 1944 before Operation Overlord.

Late War is from Normandy through the end.

To my way of thinking. WW2 starts with the German invasion of Poland. Although I've heard convincing arguments for an earlier starting date. But those arguments put the date in so many times and places as to be less than useful. Some would say that it really started in August 1914 as WW1 was not really 'the end of the argument'.
I see the period up to the end of 1941 as the early part of the war.
From 1942 to June 6 1944 I consider to be the mid-war period.
From Normandy onwards is what I see as the late war period.
Those conflicts happening before September 1st 1939 I see as pre-war.

Looking at our gaming view of WWII I'd have to say:

EARLY WAR = MAY '44

:)

Some might even stretch it through the spring of '42 when dunkelgelb replaced panzer grau as the standard scheme.

28mm, dark yellow was actually 1943.

I'd call early war 1939 to perhaps Spring 1942.

Late war for me is about Fall 1943 to the end of the war. I play a lot of Eastern front and that's when some of the larger Soviet tanks started coming out (later in the fall).

Mid war is in between.

Guf

My take would be early war through to autumn of '42. Before that the Germans rarely lost, after that they rarely won. Mid goes from winter '42 to summer '44. Normandy and Bagration are the start of the late war period – the end game for the allies vs Germany. As for the Pacific I'll leave others to divide that up.

I would concur with 28mm Fanatik for Europe.

For the Pacific, I'll take a stab:

EW: China Incident up through Parl Harbor, fall of Philipines, Malaya, Dutch East Indies to Midway. The Japanese are on a roll!

MW: Guadalcanal, the Kokoda Trail, Buna, the Solomons, more Burma defeats, Tarawa and the Marshalls. Much more balanced and some real maneuver, even in the jungles.

LW: Saipan on in the mid-Pacific. Leyte on in the Philipines, Reconquest of Burma, Iwo and Okinawa. US industrial might is unstoppable. Shermans are the Tiger Tanks of the Pacific and you can easily field a battalion of them (though somewaht disbursed) in real life!

This is not scientific in ANY way!

Or If you are American
1942 Early when we captured North Africa
1943 Mid when we captured Italy (well almost)and beat Monty
1944 When we freed Europe, captured Germany and beat Stalin

I've found the simplest way to see it is EW is before the US comes in, MW is when the US comes in, LW is when the US goes in to NWE.

My two cents anyway.

Early – 39-41
Mid – 42-43
Late – 44-45

each era is two years except the first which is three, a better distribution

Early/Mid/Late is a device used by Battlefront to sell books and give tanks different points costs.
For example, I will not buy Matildas in EW (Hellfire Pass!) because they are just too darn expensive. However, in North Africa, they are a bargain.

Don't waste your time agonizing over it. It's not worth the effort.

Depending on the theatre the war can be divided up into various periods with fairly distinct characteristics, the timelines of which don't necessarily line up with other theatres.
eg for the mediterranian theatre:
1. (Early EW) Operation Compass, Iraq and the Levant, Italian invasion of Greece. (ie 1940-early 41)
2. (Late EW)German invasion of Greece, Crete, the arrival of the DAK and relief operations up to Crusader. (ie late 41)
3. (Early MW) From Crusader to the end of fighting in North Africa (ie 42 and early 43)
4. (Late MW) Sicily and Italy until stopped by german fortified lines. (ie late 43 and early 44)
5. (LW) Anzio, Cassino etc till end of war.

What Cmdr Kevin said, 39-41, 42-43, 44-45. Simples.

October 1942 El Alamein = the end of the beginning.
June 1944 Normandy = the beginning of the end.
Ergo MW = the bit in between.

by German tank:
EW is from Poland to deployment of Mk IV s with a long 75.and 6pdr
MW is from then to deployment of Tiger 1 and 17 pdr
Lw is from arrival of Tiger 1 til end of conflict.

The difficulty with periodisation in Ww2 is that there is a rhythm of challenge and response to the deployment of a rank type and its counteracting A/T guns. This leads to the unsatisfactory situation where any cut off risks leaving one army with a superior tank or gun system.

There's only a few months between the introduction of the PzIV lang in the form of the F2 variant in early 1942 (January or February?) and the Tiger in August 1942. Similarly the 17 pounder was in service by Feb 1943.

I'd also agree with Commander Kevin in general terms

Early – 39-41
Mid – 42-43
Late – 44-45

I agree with that

Don't waste your time agonizing over it. It's not worth the effort.

NOT ARGUE OVER TRIVIAL ASPECTS OF WARGAMING!?
OK who are you and what have you done to OFM?

"This leads to the unsatisfactory situation where any cut off risks leaving one army with a superior tank or gun system."

That is true of any point or theatre in the war, somebody will always have 'somthing' which is better than the other side has got. That is what makes WW2 wargaming interesting.