"WW2 gamers...what scale do you prefer?" Topic

For you larger battle types….what scale do you like AND you have any photos to share to see what that scale looks like on your table?

I still struggle if I want 6mm or 10/12mm.

My table area isn't much larger than 6'x4'

I started with 6mm and many great games on small tables – probably 3'x5' average. I've had many great games in 15mm on tables the same size or up to about 5'x6'. Most of my 15mm has been early war with tanks that don't have the huge effective ranges. Having lots of terrain to block line of sites makes average to small tables work pretty well in my opinion. Most of my experience is with Command Decision and some with Rapid Fire. One caveat we used cm instead of inches with 6mm figs for movement effectively making the table ~ 2.5 times larger in each direction relative to the rules as written.

Rich

FWIW. I consider scale translation = what players see v. what that means in 'reality'. The less a player has to convert tabletop information to battlefield decisions the better, imo.

I use 1/300 figs for company level games (IABSM and Crossfire), and 15mm figs (~1/110…120…?) for platoon stuff (CoC).

For larger battles (company, battalion, + ) I'd recommend 1/300 or 1/600. The fewer in-game occasions of "He's only 10" away…how is that long range?" that occur the better.

What is a "larger" battle? By that I mean, are you thinking of battles with lots of troops (so 1 tank = 1 tank but you'll just have lots of tanks) or do you mean higher level games where 1 tsnk = 1 company?

And either way I'd go with 6mm, GHQ all the way.

Yea, 1 tank = 1 tank

"…either way I'd go with 6mm, GHQ all the way"

While I love GHQ (having spun for them in the basement on Colfax Ave in the way-back-when) I'd seriously recommend the 1/600 stuff of Pico Armor for anything above company level (ie: fielding more than a company) for the translation reason mentioned above.

When I hear large battle I immediately think 6mm, but I'm happy with 10mm. Depends on how much you want to do on the table.

Example 6'x5' table, Normandy game:
link

15mm, even on a 6X4 that could be 2-3 battalions in Command Decision

I prefer 28mm skirmish scale, but you can take a look at any of the battle reports listed here and decide for yourself:

TMP link

15mm, useing BKC2, but at the smallest level of command, where each base of foot is a squad, and vehicles and guns are single pieces. Sort of like the old AH Squad Leader.

Lately, I've been gaming urban combat, which works best on a smaller board. The buildings I use are from Crescent Root Studios, and Mark IV Miniatures (formerly Musket Miniatures).

15mm but I do mostly skirmish. I have a lot of 6mm/ 1/285 for medium size battles.

For large games, 3mm

For 1-to-1, I like 15mm games with PBI … company level with usually no more than, say, 6 tanks on table. plays on a squared 4'x4' board.

For bigger actions I like Operational games like NQM or Megablitz – I still prefer 15mm but Megablitz looks good in 20mm too. The tabletop look is more abstract rather than model railway.

… but you do get lots of hardware …

Phil
P.B.Eye-Candy

15mm for FoW and Blitzkrieg Commander

And 1/285 for Blitzkrieg Commander for larger battles.

15mm for FOW as well, but I also like GHQ armor, vehicles, and artillery. Never cared much for their infantry though.

For me I use 25/28mm and 20mm

10 mm using BKC2 or Battlefront. 6 mm infantry is too small for my old eyes to see or paint. 15 mm gives too much of the fender to fender look with more than a couple of vehicles. With 10 mm, you can deploy 4-6 battalions on an 8x4 table with room to maneuver and still be able to ID a vehicle across the board.

Yesthatphil, wow! I like your parachutes!! Did you scratch-build them?

20mm for BattleGroup:

link

Like Cold Steel says, 10 (or 12)mm is the only scale at which you can still recognise infantry, but have a realistically empty looking playing board.

6mm is fine for tank battles, but in 6mm infantry are just blobs.

20mm. I play FOW at this moment.

M aka WR

I play 10-12mm (1/144 scale) for larger tank battles, 20mm for platoon size games and 28mm for skirmish games. We use Iron Ivan's Disposable Heroes for all scales and theatres of combat. We have also used Two Hour Wargames "Nuts!" as well.

10/12mm (1/144) scale for me as well.

For HistoryPhD …

Thanks … those parachute markers are made from little plastic cups that once had festive chocolates in

There is a a bit of a modelling guide about 6th feature from the top on the modelling page of P.B.Eye-Candy: P.B.Eye-Candy/Modelling (you will need to scroll down to it) or there is some (generally favourable) chat on TMP link …

Phil

10mm for me, it works like a champ for just about everything. Here's a 10mm game using modified BKC on a 6' x 4' table:

Map

My stab at making the table look like the map.

US forces moving up to the line of departure.

1st Plt, B Company moves up to the river and spots the enemy (top left corner, 1 stand is a squad, one vehicle/gun is one vehicle/gun), while 3rd Plt, C Company moves up in support (bottom right). For me it's pretty decent spacing on a 6' x 4' table.

Looking at the same bridge from the opposite (German) perspective, with a PaK-40 about to engage a platoon of Shermans advancing towards the bridge. Again, I like the distances, while still being able to tell what is what.

US forces pushing forward across open ground on the other flank. These engagement ranges are actually kind of close, but that's because the Germans didn't have any dedicated AT on that side (well, the PzJgr IV on that side had already been knocked out), so they stayed concealed for as long as possible in order to ambush at close range with PzSchrecks.

In any case, I hope that, despite my poor painting and terrain, you get an idea of what 10mm on a 6' x 4' table looks like. You can spy a whole lot more battle reports, mostly 10mm, a lot of WWII, Vietnam, and modern using 10mm for skirmish (squad on the table), little bigger (platoon on the table), little bigger still (company/reinforced company, as above) on the table, and a few games (look for "Hell on Wheels") with a reinforced battalion on the table.

V/R,
Jack

If starting from scratch I'd go 15mm all the way, but for 'larger' battles I tend to up the scale of unit representation.

If you just want to do huge 1:1 tank battles though, then go with 6mm.

acctingman…..dude…..

How many threads have you started about choosing a scale for WW2? At least half a dozen I'm sure. If you would just choose and get started you'd be playing now instead of asking for more advice!

(And the corrrect answer to your question is 20mm, btw)

If starting from scratch I'd go for 10mm or 6mm.
But I have cupboards full of 20mm WW2 stuff from every theatre, so I use that.

Love the eye candy PB!

I think it is a worthwhile investment to order a few figures in each scale before jumping in to the long term commitment.

I like individual infantry sections, weapon teams and tanks.

If starting from scratch, I'd go 10/12mm – IMO best looks & tabletop space ratio going for battle-size gaming (and not just for WWII)……you can get a lot of cross-era terrain usage if you go this scale for multi-period collecting too!

I do 6mm for decent sized (brigade+) actions with BKCII, and 20mm for platoon + supports using Chain of Command. All on a 6 x 4 table.

I play with 15mm, 20mm and even 28mm (yes I've a problem :( )

You mention "large battles" so personally I'd be looking towards 15mm or 10mm

Have you intensions of skirmish level perhaps? If so I'd recommend 20mm. I believe it is the most beautiful and most proportionately accurate scale. This is based on others opinions that have played with my toys.

For non gaming types who try out a game or two with me I have noticed they respond very favourably with 28mm. I think they look quite cartoony in comparison with 20mm and for "larger battles" I don't think its too practical a scale.

In the end I think a lot obviously depends on your own personal preferences. Is visual impact the main priority for you?

Are physical space limitations a major concern? For larger battles it might be wish to scale down.

Have you no interest in skirmish level. Its a really entertaining level of WW2 combat so on't dismiss it out of game until you've tried it.

Do you enjoy the painting side of the hobby? Or does the thought of painting all these small soldiers chaps seem a major pain in the aaa….a serious chore that just needs to be crossed than imo thats a mojor consideration. Maybe 10mm or even 6mm should be considered. Better to have the enjoyment of a few games than regretting a mountain of unpainted lead mockingly starring at you.

If you enjoy painting then do you envisage the modelling side of the hobby as something that you would enjoy (you know…is there a model train geek suppressed inside…you mention wanting to see photos so there is that scary possibility :) )

If that is the case and you enjoy the thoughts of recreating detailed terrain then serially consider 20mm. There are so many accessories available in 1:72 scale. I personally really enjoy this side of war gaming.

I know Just Jack really loves 10mm and they look great and sounds like they are more reasonably priced them other larger options. I do think Jack prefers the actual gaming and tactical side of the hobby and less the modelling side than I do so this scale is a better fit for him.

I think for battalion level gaming (I'm not entirely sure how you would define "larger battles") but I don't think I'd be interested in going larger than 15mm.

If I had to start from scratch and needed to choose one scale it would actually be 20mm. I love the size. For just larger size battles if I could only go for one scale I'd go for 15mm (I don't own any 10mm but that would be an option too.)

Someone mentioned purchasing several sizes first and consider what seems attractive for you..put them on a table aJust sit down at the table with them..and really try to imagine a multitude on the table…pick several of them up as if in a game…take them for a test drive…I think its a good idea to find what might work best for you before taking the plunge.

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War Panda: beautiful terrain!

15mm for me, because I can walk into a store and buy a Flames of War platoon (regardless of whether I use the FoW bases or not).

Had I not started WW2 gaming with Flames, it's possible I would have gone with 20mm. Because then I can just buy 1/72 plastic model kits for my vehicles (and maybe for my infantry).

Apparently, Chain of Command uses a 1:120 ground scale, so 15mm troops are going to be very close to ground scale. But the 20mm troops can be painted to a higher standard much more easily.

1 figure = 1 man
1 vehicle/gun = 1 vehicle/gun
25/28mm only

Small complex games 1/72 bigger games 1:144 same rules more open terrain scale 1" to 10m for1/72 and 1mm to 1m for 1:144.

15mm is my go-to since it's big enough to skirmish and small enough you can pile a lot of guys on there and not go bankrupt.

Been itching for some 6mm gaming though. Some day..

28mm.

10MM for big battles, 28mm for skirmish affairs, best of both worlds and 10mm still looks good, looking down on a table whereas you have to bow and squint when using 6mm.

Only issue I have with 10mm over 6mm is the cost AND from the pictures I've seen….not many 10mm look nicer or have better detail than GHQ's 6mm

Lots of Tanks – 6mm (or even smaller). Modern Spearhead uses 1 x MIFV with a couple of men to represent an infantry platoon – so 6mm is fine.

If its a balance, if infantry is a factor then 10mm. 10mm is my favourite for all periods non-skirmish. 1 tank=1 model, base of 3-4 infantry is a squad. IABSM we use 2 x 3 man bases per section.

Mainly infantry – on a 1 to 1 Platoon with a few vehicles I'd go 20mm – fits with 1/72 and HO models.

20mm

Large enough to use for skirmish (you can see weapons etc.) Scale proportions very good can get cheap (but good) plastic and top of the line lead. Quick build vehicle kits are cheap and good.

Small enough for platoon level games like Command Decision and Combat Command.

You only need one figure collection for all levels of WWII.

TomT

Tom I will agree with you about 20mm but I discovered it too late and I have extensive 15 mm and 28 mm collections. It would be too hard to start over now. However I get to do so vicariously through my friend Nazrat that did just that. He sold much of his 28 mm and has gone to 20 mm for games of Battlegroup Normandy and BattleGroup Kursk. In fact he is putting on a huge game of BattleGroup Kursk in 20 mm for the Fall of the Reich supplement at Historicon. He has an entire bombed out urban area for the scenario.

I will go back to what Mark (Extra Crispy) stated as define big WW II game. For me I prefer platoon to company action level games as a single tank is still a single tank and a single figure can be a single figure or a stand represents a squad as it does in Fireball Forward.

Another factor is what level of command are you wanting to game? If it is larger than company level then you may want to consider 10 mm or smaller.

As for what I want on the battlefield? 50+ vehicles and the appropriate amount of infantry.

I've looked at what 10/12mm stuff is out there and quite frankly, most of it has NO detail. They mostly look like clumps of metal.

Guess I'm going 6mm.

Now, for aerial warfare, I'm going to a larger scale :)

Acctingman I just got into 6mm Moderns and the detail on the GHQ and CinC microarmor models is just amazing. I have looked at the WW II microamor models and you will not be disappointed if that is the way you want to go. You may want to focus on either North Africa or Russian, i.e., Kursk if you are a tread head like me.

Thanks whitemanticore

Kursk is actually my favorite battle of WW2 :)

Gents,
Certainly much of the 12mm stuff like plasic is good detail. I would shun GHQ minature as usless. I bought a set some time ago and it was unuseable. Even though in the GHQ provided box the guns were bent to hell. They were too soft to be of any practical use for wargaming. The surface detail was high but the intrerfaces (flash) was bigger. Pointless having flash bigger than detail. Maybe with great efforts it would make a good static model but not a playable minature in my opinion.

One to one gaming is possible at company level and a bit above. The troops are based in teams and vehicals are 1 to 1 (MG). However nobody should be under any delusions, running a company even with simple rules on a realistic battlefield is demanding if you are to get the best out of them.

As a kid I played 20mm with Airfix, Matchbox and Revell models. I struggled with the relationship between ground and model scale and as a result I ended up selling it all off.

If I was looking in total isolation and could be assured of people to play against I would I think go with 6mm models and a ground scale of at most 1/1000.

10mm was a scale I seriously looked at as was 1/144th but I never took the plunge.

I have ended up in 15mm playing FoW simply because that is where the opponents are and having managed to get my head round the lack of ground scale I actually find the visuals in general rather pleasing.