"Historicon dealer hall map/vendor list is up" Topic

The Historicon dealer hall map/vendor list is up on the HMGS site, there are 52 of us listed, down from 65 two years ago when the convention moved from Valley Forge to Fredericksburg.

On the HMGS site, they list the temperature today in Fredericksburg; 94, feels like 100, 48% humidity.

Ball soup weather for sure………..can't wait.

Will see ya'll there; bring your gold bond powder.

Hmm. That's disappointing and I hope not indicative of a larger slow down . Who are the notable absentees this year?

Not too many jocks coming to the convention, so hopefully the itch will stay away. :-)

It's down from 67 last year which based on the numbers above was higher than the casino convention. However the ones missing seem to be smaller like "Fife and Drum", "Acheson Creations", "Atlantis Games and Comics", etc, also the two artists are missing but that's no loss to me. I will miss "Fife and Drum" and was hoping "Acheson Creations" would have a larger space so I could buy more than one or two items. There is still more vendors I want to buy from than I have money.

Edit: one I was looking forward to that isn't on the list is Sgt. Major Miniatures. I didn't buy from them last year and hoped to get some this year. Maybe Fall-In! Or next year then.

There are a few new ones I guess but that's for others to figure out and post.

Edit, Edit: double G pointed out that BTC will be there so I changed my post.

Battlefield Terrain Concepts is going, he hasn't missed a show in ages……….

I would be surprised to hear that Sgt. Major Miniatures is not going as the con is almost in their backyard.

Joey

I believe Sgt. Major Miniatures will be present. Might be a snafu with information…………..

He's not on the dealer hall map

I can assure you guys that I was intending to be at the show!!! I mailed in an application and a check. Of course, until someone just e-mailed me, I didn't know I wasn't on the list. HMGS doesn't let you know that your application was received and they wait until the last moment to cash your check…

I have e-mailed Dudley, and I will be calling him tomorrow if I don't hear back from him tonight. I still plan to attend, but I guess at this point, that is up to HMGS?

Konrad from Fire and Sword is coming in from Poland and sharing booth space with me to sell some figures, and run demos, and glad hand.

I will post back here as soon as I can get an answer out of HMGS!!!

Andy

Well Andy you are not alone….I also mailed in an application and check. Looks like I will be contacting Dudley- Iron Wind Metals is not listed.

Worst part I just booked 2 flights for part of my family to meet me at the show- non-refundable :(

Jim

Jim,

Sorry to hear that, but I'm glad I'm not alone! If I reach Dudley, I will let him know to contact you as well…

Hope things work out for both of you.

I am not going to be able to go this year but I will say that I did not receive any information about the show as I usually do.
David
splnteredlightminis.com

Will anyone be carrying Perry Miniatures metal figures at HISTORICON this year?

I didn't see them on the list of Vendors at the HMGS site.

Last year it cost me $1,580 USD in expenses to attend Historicon as a dealer, not counting restocking of product sold at the show. We also stayed at a 2 star hotel to save money.
The sales did not justify the expenses so we decided not to return this year.

Only 52. This is a very disturbing trend.

I have wondered if HMGS raised the convention attendance price if they could lower the dealer booth price and get the dealer count up again.

But many dealers have stopped coming because of high travel costs and low sales. Not a lot HMGS can do about that.

Andy and Jim, I am sure Dudley will take care of the two of you, there is plenty of space available if you look at the dealer hall layout.

That was my concern was well; here I sit two weeks out from the show and I hadn't heard if my money was received and if I was all set, had a couple of other vendors I know call me and ask if I got the email confirming I was all set and I told them no.

Rudy, sorry you won't be there, was looking forward to getting more of those excellent Frontier Miniatures 25mm ACW figures from you, but I understand on the expense aspect.

Believe me on that.

The first year I attended at the new location, I did extremely well, due to the fact that I advertised the show and pushed for a lot of my customers in that area who wouldn't make the trip to Lancaster/Valley Forge to attend as the show was now basically in their back yard.

They turned out and spent money with me and other dealers, but most complained about the traffic on 95 south and said they wouldn't come back.

As a result, I took a big hit last year.

If I take another hit, I'm out; I want to support HMGS as they've been very good to me and put a lot of money in my pocket over the years, but I can't attend a show with the expenses this one has, be away from my place for a week and not make a profit to justify the time/expense.

Someone up thread mentioned the missing dealers are smaller ones; well that means they aren't making enough money to attend (see Rudy's comments) and the smaller dealers add variety to the show, plus the more dealers you have, the more choices for shopping.

But fear not, there will be plenty of deals in the flea market……….

Just an update, Sgt Major Miniatures will indeed be in attendance, Dudley, being the good man that he is, called me this morning, and we worked everything out. I imagine at some point he will add us to the map, but rest assured, we will be there!

Jim, Dudley is trying to reach you as well.

I mentioned to Dudley this morning that I have joked with people in the past about whether or not I would be at a show based on whether or not I had space, usually not knowing until 2 weeks prior to the show if my application was received, and I was given space. I asked if it was possible to e-mail us when applications are received so that we at least know they got there. It hasn't been a problem for me in the past, but this time, my application never made it to Dudley. He said if he is running the room again next year, he will do the confirmations, so good news there!

Andy

Age of Glory and Architects of War both carry Perry. You might want to visit their websites to see what they have, as I'm not sure either carries the whole Perry line.

"Only 52. This is a very disturbing trend."

Although I agree it's disappointing, I can't see how one year of low dealer numbers is any sort of "trend". Perhaps if it's bad the next few years as well…

@Nazrat --

There were 68 last year. Highest was 90 in 2008.

A post on the HMGS forum said the typical count is 60-70.

I think the trend is post Valley Forge. A small trend.

I remember the vendors fees for VF were quite high. Is this the same for the FCC?

As far as the fees; if you are a dealer who gets three plus tables, then the fees are not high.

If you a dealer who gets one or two tables, then yes they are, which is why you'll see smaller dealers sharing a booth.

The actual vendor fees are not the problem for me; it's the distance for traveling back and forth to the show, the front and back ends of the trip are strictly travel days and there is no way, no how I am leaving VA at 3:00PM on a Sunday and crawling up the East Coast in July, so I leave on Monday.

So two extra travel days/van rentals/hotels/meals is a killer……………

As someone stated above it is still more dealers than I have money I can spend. Glad to hear that Sgt Major will be there as well as BTC and Iron Wind Metals.

Yes Perry figures will be there via Architects of War. I know that Steve (Age of Glory) used to carry the Perry figures but I am not sure if he still does.

I will go out on a limb and opine that lack of available rooms near (next to) the center may lead to some fall off. Parking becomes a problem as well. If you are a dealer you probably have to park it and leave it, hopefully near a designated entrance. The flea market and table game set up are also at the mercy of the parking lot being full anywhere near the building.

I thought lost battalion games was going to attend. Dudley may want to check with them also.

My opinion is not one with a agenda to promote. I have always regarded myself as a guest of the group sponsoring a convnetion. This is my 31st year of going to miniature conventions as a vendor. Now I go to between 12 and 14 per year which is a drop frompre-heart surgery decades of up to 24 shows a year.

As mentioned earlier, the travel and hotel cost of shows have risen dramatically over the past decade. There have actually been a few years where the gas cost exceeded the hotel room cost which was a major surprise.

This year I have heard a number of small companies comment on the poor value of going to shows. Expenses, low sales and time loss were mentioned by all of them for their opinion to stop going to as many shows. No I will not name those I have talked to about this situation. But it is a trend that is always beginning to seep down into the smaller regional and local shows as well.
If you check vendor counts from previous years, i would suspect that all shows have a declining vendor count this year.

In regard to historicon and other national shows, When the focus becomes on major manufactorers rather than smaller 'general store' operations which offer a variety of products, a decline in numbers can be expected. When major companies attend whether from the US or overseas, the need for smaller stores is diminished. These small stores tend to use only 1 or two booths (in the new set up) but still have the same amount of travel and hotel expenses as larger companies.

The significant difference is that customers will go to the manufacturers booth first due to the depth of product carried which is natural. Small stores are an after thought. Specific examples can be cited but I will not take up spacew recounting them as I do in discussions with other companies.

No sour grapes just citing a trend and a possible reason for a decline in the number of vendors. (Which may not reflect a decline in the number of booth/ tables in the vendor hall)

Rudy hit the nail on the head . All in all it comes down to the ever increasing cost of everything .Gas.gas,gas has run up the cost of everything mentioned above . I just went to a small con in my own state and by the time I got home and added up the cost ,I felt like I had been robbed . The gas for 10 hours of travel time,plus food, hotel,registration,a day of not working, makes it no fun .

As the list indicates, the Viking Forge will not exhibit at Historicon this year. I've decided to attend as a private individual because it's time to have fun for a change.

I've signed up for one session of Wally's Basement on Saturday and will sell personal wargaming stuff like books, loose figures and painted Napoleonics, but will not bring any of our products.

I will also walk through the gaming areas and hand out free sample packs of our new range of 15mm ACW figures.

We do plan to attend Fall In this November as a dealer.

I found this thread to be very interesting and it raised what seemed to me to be a very general and basic question. Does anyone on the HMGS board keep statistics on attendance anymore, whether vendors or attendees? This would seem to be a basic requirement for a group that runs events. I looked on the HMGS Yahoo group and found an excel file that had attendance numbers for each of the individual cons from 1994-2004 but have not seen any update is the past decade. And I did not find any attendance data for vendors. These statistics may be kept somewhere but I could not find anything as clear as that excel file.

This is sad to see. There are allot of small dealers that really do their best to support the conventions and it sounds like they're getting priced out. I almost wonder if it's worth raising the admission price by 10.00 – 15.00 to help offset some of the dealers cost??

It doesn't make a difference if you are a big or small dealer. The bottom line is if you can't make money its not worth the expense and time of going. Competition is competition. If a dealer can't compete, than the dealer can't go. It is better to go to local conventions with lower costs. You still need to make money, but you don't need as many sales to cover your cost. Unless you have products other dealers don't have, or can compete on price, it isn't worth going to a convention as a dealer. Especially if manufacturers and distributors will be there with products you carry.

"I almost wonder if it's worth raising the admission price by 10.00 – 15.00 to help offset some of the dealers cost??"
So what you are saying is that you would want everyone else going to a con to pay an additional $10 USD to $15 USD more to get into a con so as to help offset some of the dealers costs? Is that correct or am I misunderstanding that?

Time for me to visit Double G's booth again. I'm a "terrain junkie" so I'm sure there's $50 USD to $100 USD worth of stuff that he'll have there that I'll want. Always is!

BrigadeGames will be there.

All I can say is that the entire trip including booth fees and T&E costs us over $4,000 USD to attend.

As the economy appears to be someone in better shape than last year we are hoping for a good show this year.

Sash and Saber will be there. We'll have a few new goodies, including 25mm (actually 28mm) mounted Wilder's Lightning Brigade.

Lon, I will be doing my part to help make your trip a good one with the items I am looking forward to getting.
Chris, that is great news about the mounted Wilder's Lightning Brigade. A definite must get for my brother and myself.

I like the way you think firstvarty1979; all need is another 1,000 attendees to think the way you do and I'll be in business…….;).

One of the main reasons I attend these conventions is to see the offerings from the small companies & Mom & Pop operations.

"I almost wonder if it's worth raising the admission price by 10.00 – 15.00 to help offset some of the dealers cost??"
So what you are saying is that you would want everyone else going to a con to pay an additional $10 USD USD to $15 USD USD more to get into a con so as to help offset some of the dealers costs? Is that correct or am I misunderstanding that?

That is one way to look at it.

Here's another way: the Con costs a lot of money to run. A good proportion of that cost is charged to vendors fees. These fees make it impossible for some of the vendors to come to the convention. That means less choice for the convention goer, and a reduction in booth fees for the HMGS. A lose-lose prospect. The raise in entrance fees puts the financial burden back upon the majority of us that benefit the most from the convention.

Don't think of it as "bailing out" the vendors, think of it as a more equitable paying of the rental and operating costs of the venue. With about 3,000 people, even a modest increase in entrance fees would cover some of these expenses.

So what you are saying is that you would want everyone else going to a con to pay an additional $10 USD USD to $15 USD USD more to get into a con so as to help offset some of the dealers costs? Is that correct or am I misunderstanding that?

You hit the nail right on the head. Without vendors, I can guarantee you're not going to have a convention. The venue is more expensive than the Host. Everyone who goes should be charged more, not just the vendors.

i think this is more to do with the changing nature of retail and the impact of technology allowing manufacturers to directly sell vs going through a retailer.

Longer term, if your going to be successful in a fringe market like our beloved hobby I think you'll need to produce your own goods / game ip rather than just resell someone elses – over time they don't need the middle man

I thing you guys are still missing the point. You want me to pay more to go to a con to no matter how you call it to subsidize a group of vendors and still pay additional money to buy their products.

I thing you guys are still missing the point. You want me to pay more to go to a con to no matter how you call it to subsidize a group of vendors and still pay additional money to buy their products.

I get your point. However, there is a fine line between who's paying their fair share. If you see dealers dropping out, that's a bad sign. The economy isn't bad anymore so it's not that.

I think the angle I see is that HCon is underpriced.

As for paying additional money for their products? I don't see that – especially since when you pick up product at the convention you're saving on shipping.

I guess time will tell…

I thing you guys are still missing the point. You want me to pay more to go to a con to no matter how you call it to subsidize the convention costs ………

Fixed it for you.

………and still pay additional money to buy their products."

What "additional money" are you spending at the vendors?

Bowman, if the additional money goes to help offset the dealers cost that is the same thing as subsidizing the dealers. After all the dealers are there to sell merchandise. For the average person going to the con he is not selling anything but in many cases purchasing something which he would also be able to do by buying it online from the dealer.
Now as to you stating the raise in cost would put the burden back onto those of us benefiting the most if you go to a con to purchase merchandise and game and a dealer goes to sell goods and game who then takes money home with them? You or the dealer? So who is benefitting the most?

Bowman, if the additional money goes to help offset the dealers cost that is the same thing as subsidizing the dealers.

That's the way you want to see it. I prefer to call it a more equitable means for paying for the venue and expenses.

Joe, I'm sorry but the logic in your second paragraph escapes me. The vendors benefit more from the convention than the public because they make money? To answer your question, the convention is set up for the 3000 wargamers and they benefit the most. It's not a trade show for the 52 vendors.

it's really simple. The slight increase in entrance fees does not match the increased cost to run Historicon over the last few years. You cannot expect to place the additional financial burden on the vendors and expect them to take a loss for showing up. You do see that there is a problem, right?

Bowman ,then how about this. They can raise the entrance fee for everyone and you pay the additional cost for me to get in. That sounds like a winning combination for both of us.

Joe, I thought you were against subsidization.

Bowman, I am but since you want to be free with everyone else's money I might as well be subsidized by you.