"Could the Marines be the big winner of the F-35 debacle?" Topic

Interesting take on the F-35B

link

I'm not sure that the tradeoffs are as severe as the article claims.

I mean, the F35A (USAF version) really benefited from the weight reduction forced by the -B. I think it's the -C version that took it in the shorts, because it needed bigger wings for the low-speed handling requirements and much beefier landing gear, all of which added lots of weight.

Which, IIRC, is one of the reasons why the Navy wants to keep its options open for more Super Bugs. Wouldn't be surprised if they're already working up the outline for a F/A-18G/H.

I think it will be an F/A-18H/J (the -G variant is the EA-18G Growler), but I don't know how much further you can stretch the basic Hornet design. GE claims that they can stretch thrust to 26klbs per engine (and might be able to squeeze a little more out, if the two enhancement programs can both take place on a single engine), but that seems to be the upper limits of thrust from that size engine.

If you could stuff the F100 or F110 engines in there, that would be a whole different story, since you'd be pushing 30klbs of thrust each in that case. But the F100/110 engines are 9" larger in diameter. Making an F119 or F135 engine fit would be even crazier, for 35+ to 40klbs thrust each, but those are even bigger than F100s.

By the time the Super Bug's replacement comes on, I don't think it will share any airframe components. It still might not be stealthy, at least not like the F22/F35, but it will almost certainly use the same engines to help reduce maintenance costs (and reduce the number of different spares carried)

Heheheheh He said Growler.

Forgot the G (the Electic Bug, perhaps?). Not sure if up-engining is an option, given the size problems. That'd require a whole redesign. More likely is to squeeze more out of the existing F414 and upgrade the avionics (possibly taking some things from the F-35). All speculation, though…

Yeah, GE can stretch another 15-20% out of the F414 engines (non-afterburning thrust, so it's not as great an improvement as you'd expect). Possibly as much as another 38%, but I don't think the two separate upgrades can both be applied to the same engine. Both involve changing compressor or the whole gas generator assembly.

And it looks like most of this is already in the pipeline. Conformal Fuel tanks, enclosed weapons stations, an IRST sensor, and a lot of avionics from the X32 program (which may or may not be shared by the F35s).

I'd really like to see a Navalized ATF concept, with a pair of F135 engines to really make things move. 80klbs total thrust would make for a beast of an aircraft.