"bid to stop spifires and other classic planes from flying " Topic

just been emailed this petition to sign,
link
we must stop these nymbies from ruining our heritage and dishonouring our war heroes!

Not quite sure I understand what I am petitioning for… it seems the locals want to stop the airbase becoming another airport…

It doesn't seem to be about stopping spitfires flying?

Honestly, some people….

So I was watching TV the other day when there's this *enormous* racket and as I looked out of the window, a pair of spitfires hammered over the village from the west; barely twice the height of the trees, banked around and headed off south-eastwards.

Fantastic. First time I've ever seen more than one at once for real.

I'm guessing it was some event at Duxford.

There seems to be a fair bit of misinformation going on on both sides of this one….

A de Havilland Vampire almost blew the roof off my house a few years ago. My thought at the time was: "That was AWESOME!"

Not wanting to be a killjoy, and I've seen Spitfires flying, and it's an inspiring sight…but these aircraft are getting a bit long in the tooth now. How much longer can they be kept safe and airworthy?

@forrester so long as they are inspected and maintained correctly
The answer to your question is 'indefinitely'

Regards

Jim

A P-51 crashed into the viewing area at an air race a few years back in Reno, Nevada.

How does metal fatigue affect piston aircraft. No amount of inspection/maintenance can keep that from happening unless you replace parts, and at what point does it become a reproduction rather then an original? Accidents will slowly take them away of course.

That said, let them fly.

Hi Maddaz, I think you're right. I wish this fad for petitions would stop. They are so common, and about such small things now, that the impact is being diluted – Peter and the wolf springs to mind – especially when very local issues become 'global'. So what if 100,000 foreigners sign a petition about a very local issue in another country? They don't live there, do they, so their view is not very important, is it.

I've read that 4 times and I've still no idea what they're petitioning for.

I think they are complaining about the amount of flights a day is to be restricted, but I'm not sure.

Olicana – I don't have a problem with petitions, I just have a problem signing up to something that doesn't say what it means… the problem here is

1) spitfires fly from this base.

2) the base might become an airport

3) the locals don't want the base to become an airport

4) if the base doesn't become an airport the spitfire stops flying

however 4 above doesn't seem to be a consequence of 3, and in fact 4 is just a scare story (or seems to be).

As a result – unless someone can prove that 4 will occur I am not signing the petition.

(and don't get me started about serious fallacies in arguments… )

When I was stationed in Germany during the Cold War, we called "noisy, low-flying" Allied aircraft "The Sound of Freedom."

Just my nickel's worth.

Jim

1) spitfires fly from this base.

- Yes, well Spitfire singular I believe.

2) the base might become an airport

- Nope. The actual planning application that's gone in is for a handful of aircraft and 960 aircraft movements a year. So about 1.5 take-offs and landings per day…. They want to have a handful of flights a week and a small air show once a year. Nobody's looking to turn it into an airport – there was an attempt to do so years ago, and it was quite emphatically refused. Nobody's revisiting it.

3) the locals don't want the base to become an airport

- Seems to be a handful of NIMBYs who think a minor planning change is somehow the thin end of the wedge, which there's no evidence for.

4) if the base doesn't become an airport the spitfire stops flying

- Nope, which is why this petition makes little sense. The Spitfire is there, and nobody is trying to stop it. The owners of the site want a few more planes and flights, the locals who object (apparently a small minority) don't want them to get permission. Nobody is objecting to the current use. Seems to be a storm in a teacup. Certainly if this is the most pressing worry in anyone's life, they should count themselves very blessed indeed….

Dom.

Again it depends on the level of maintenance. Some CH-47s have been reworked air frames for a very long time in active service, and those are helicopters, generally more mechanically problematic than a fixed wing aircraft.

We have a local business that restores antique warbirds. They are working on a P-51 right now, and the level of engineering, fabrication etc from engine cylinders to air frames, they are essentially rebuilding the aircraft from the inside out. If people are going to spend that kind of money making it safe and airworthy, then they are every bit as safe to fly than the typical Cessna 172.

link

I've spent a bit of time searching the Suffolk Coastal Planning Portal for details of this application. I came across hundreds of 'Neighbour Responses', but none of the original application documents for some reason.

I did find one 'Supporting Information' document from the applicants saying that many respondents thought that the intention was to create an airport, whereas what they wanted to do was simply base 8 'heritage aircraft' there.

So exactly what it's all about I'm not sure. But it looks like something I could support.

For the benefit of those who are wondering about how much longer they can keep the old warhorses flying…..they have never stopped building Spitfires!
People (granted, very rich people) are still paying for them to be built.
I would be more concerned about the last Vulcan bomber, which runs out of airframe hours after next season (2015), and cannot be replaced….unless somebody very,very,very rich…….
As for "the sound of freedom", it reminds me of a Cold War RAF station commander who received a telephoned complaint from a local farmer regarding a low-flying jet scaring his sheep.
The CO politely asked if the offending aircraft had red stars under the wings?
No, says Giles, they were definitely RAF roundels.
Good, says the CO, so we're all still safe.
There is no record of whether the farmer took his point or not.

A P-51 crashed into the viewing area at an air race a few years back in Reno, Nevada.

It has to be said though, Reno has a lousy reputation for aviation safety.

Rabbit 3:

Reno is so close to hell you can see Sparks.

Vague proposition for us to sign, as a result it is not getting support.

As for "the sound of freedom", it reminds me of a Cold War RAF station commander who received a telephoned complaint from a local farmer regarding a low-flying jet scaring his sheep.
The CO politely asked if the offending aircraft had red stars under the wings?
No, says Giles, they were definitely RAF roundels.
Good, says the CO, so we're all still safe.

He may not have fully grasped the situation…. ;-)

(Yep, genuine photo…. The pilot was George Aird, and happily his parachute had time to just about open enough for the task at hand – he went through the roof of a greenhouse and broke a few bones, but recovered fully and flew for many more years.)

We live very close to the former 242 sqdn airfield – Douglas Bader an' all that.

We often hear the unmistakeable music of a Merlin engine flying in low orbit overhead as it pays its homage to the few.

We love to hear them, and always stop what we are doing and rush out into the garden to see if we can catch a glimpse of the Spitfires or Hurricanes that visit.

Yes, we're in Suffolk Coastal.

I have no idea what this petition is about. It's typical Suffolk. Barely intelligible, introspective and full of nimbyism and dire aversion to change. We certainly have no need for a further regional airport in Anglia, though if that is what is being proposed.

Tea break over now. Must get back to the mangelworzels….

Sign nowt.

I'm confused! I don't get either the sound of Merlin engines or jet fighters flying deafening low passes over my property….How many signatures on a petition would I need for such a wonderful privilege to start happening?

Signed

Are you anywhere near HMAS Albatross Sparker? No Merlins, but plenty of jets.

A P-51 crashed into the viewing area at an air race a few years back in Reno, Nevada.

Yes, but that's because the owner and pilot radically modified the aircraft. Basically the guy modified the plane to maximize speed, compromising stability in the process. He also apparently decided to skimp on some parts by re-using single-use locknuts. These failed and innocent people died because of it. The age of the aircraft was not a factor.

Here's the Wikipedia page, including the findings of the NTSB investigation:

link

That aircraft nose-down in the picture is an English Electric Lightning Mk1, if I am not mistaken (pushes specs up nose in faux-academic fashion).

Was doing some construction surveying south of Denver 25 years ago near an airport that was going to put on an airshow over the 4th.

Got to see some of the vintage planes practicing. Some trainers, a P-51, B-24, and a Spitfire….

My siblings have instructed me that I've worn out the anecdote.

By the way, Nucla, CO where I grew up has a nice little airport. Minimal facilities – tower and some hangers, but they extended the strip in the '40s to handle emergency landings for B-29s. I am sure it would handle Spitfires…

Just been reading Mserafin's link.

Facts as advertised but one other thing I'd like to ask is what in blazes was a 74 year old doing flying the plane in the first instance!

That aircraft nose-down in the picture is an English Electric Lightning Mk1, if I am not mistaken (pushes specs up nose in faux-academic fashion).

You are not mistaken, sir, although a second or so after the photo, I believe specific identfication of the aircraft type may have become a moot point…. ;-)

Facts as advertised but one other thing I'd like to ask is what in blazes was a 74 year old doing flying the plane in the first instance!

To be honest that's the major danger of warbirds – not the age of the aircraft (which are generally well maintained and scrutinised) but the age of the pilots. Warbirds are expensive toys, so tend to be owned by people who either lovingly restored them over years or decades, or people who had a stormingly successful business career and bought themselves one as a retirement hobby. Flying fighters is generally reckoned to be a young man's game, but flying vintage fighters is pretty much an old man's game….

Are you anywhere near HMAS Albatross Sparker? No Merlins, but plenty of jets.

Mainly Helos to be honest…

I'm confused! I don't get either the sound of Merlin engines or jet fighters flying deafening low passes over my property….How many signatures on a petition would I need for such a wonderful privilege to start happening?

You need to move to Lincs in that case. I'm near the Lincs Aviation Centre at East Kirkby and get to see airshows through the summer from about a mile away whilst Mustangs etc stooge around over my head awaiting their turn. I also have the BBMF Lanc come thundering over at low level on it's way back to Coningsby on Sundays after displays elsewhere, they always do a flypast over EK even though it's shut on Sundays. The Grace Spit was based there for a while and it used to come over about twice a week, and on other days the BBMF Spits and Hurris come over practising or doing test flights, along with the Dakota which is a regular low level visitor. The story circulating locally was that the Grace Spit left because they wanted more money to keep it based there, the Spit owners I mean.
We have one BBMF pilot in a Spit who regularly buzzes his house just behind the hill behind my village, rumou has it to let his wife know he'll be for tea shortly!