John the OFM | 14 Jun 2014 7:05 a.m. PST |
I remember some Polls with a grand total of 250 accounts responding. That is out of more than 10,000 accounts. On top of that, there is nothing preventing me from having all of my sock puppet accounts vote also, if I feel strongly enough about it. Or it would amuse me enough to dig up their passwords. Off the top of my head, I could vote 6 times, maybe more. I am sure that others have more. Luckily, you cannot vote if your account was started AFTER the Poll started. Don't ask me how I know that. Finally, there is always the possibility that Dear Editor can rig the vote to give him the results he wants. I know that *I* would do it, particularly if I wrote all the code myself! |
passiveaggressive | 14 Jun 2014 7:15 a.m. PST |
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Abwehrschlacht | 14 Jun 2014 7:19 a.m. PST |
why not just have the same password for all your sock puppets and main account? That way you don't have to remember them. |
Stronty Girl | 14 Jun 2014 7:34 a.m. PST |
Perhaps we could have a poll to find out? |
20thmaine | 14 Jun 2014 7:57 a.m. PST |
Make voting compulsory – those who don't vote are barred for life. I am kidding. No. Really. I am kidding. |
x42brown | 14 Jun 2014 8:00 a.m. PST |
I'm not sure that I care. Polls are just a bit of fun. x42 |
Tgunner | 14 Jun 2014 8:05 a.m. PST |
Polls accurately reflect the views of those who vote/participate. |
Martin Rapier | 14 Jun 2014 8:20 a.m. PST |
How many of those 10,000 accounts are active? As Tgunner says, the poll results reflect the views of the accounts which took part in the poll. Make of them what you will. |
Silent Pool | 14 Jun 2014 9:56 a.m. PST |
"
having all of my sock puppet accounts vote also
" OMG OFM R U A cheaty pants? Referee? |
Silent Pool | 14 Jun 2014 10:04 a.m. PST |
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Winston Smith | 14 Jun 2014 10:21 a.m. PST |
Cat Shannon was me on a work computer somewhere on Scranton. No wait. That was the OFM's sock puppet. |
MAD MIKE | 14 Jun 2014 10:35 a.m. PST |
I wouldn't take the number of accounts listed too seriously. Just a quick look at some of the Canadian Provinces shows that a large majority are dormant. TMP link |
14Bore | 14 Jun 2014 10:56 a.m. PST |
Those who scream the loudest get heard. |
Herkybird | 14 Jun 2014 3:06 p.m. PST |
I think polls represent those with a strong enough opinion to be bothered voting. Those who don't, are indeed voting by NOT voting. It just means they dont want to express any opinion they hold on the subject. Sock puppet account voting is CHEATING, please stop it, guilty parties! |
John the OFM | 14 Jun 2014 4:59 p.m. PST |
We'll think about it. Since we have had 2 Polls in the last 9 months, that is hardly a problem. Since Dear Editor is probably cooking the books to get the results he wants (I know I would!), what's the problem? |
etotheipi | 14 Jun 2014 6:26 p.m. PST |
Polls don't reflect people's opinions. |
Arteis | 14 Jun 2014 8:46 p.m. PST |
Polls don't reflect people's opinions. How do you figure that? I would've thought polls at least explain the opinions of all the actual respondents, within the constraints of the wording of the question, and the honesty of the responder. |
Cyrus the Great | 14 Jun 2014 9:03 p.m. PST |
MY answers accurately MY opinions! |
etotheipi | 15 Jun 2014 5:07 a.m. PST |
I would've thought polls at least explain the opinions of all the actual respondents Respondents can explain their opinions, but they are not required to. and the honesty of the responder. Absolutely no way to understand that. The rationale you give for wanting an Ingore function is well founded and self-consistent. Nobody has any way of knowing whether that is your true motivation or if Tango slept with your best friend's wife. Also, human beings are notoriously bad at understanding their own underlying motivations for their behaviour. If you've ever seen someone act against their own declared intent, you are familiar with this. If you haven't, I know a dozen cognitive psychologists who would love to meet you about a study of the people you know. Another issue, related to but not the entirety of the one above, is human motivations are complex. So even if I have a good handle on my motivations for doing certain things (and I never said that is impossible, just not pervasive), and if I am inclined to be honest about them, and if I am motivated to explain them to the public at large, there are limits to my ability to properly explain all the complexities of my personal world view so that you could properly understand those motivations. As a follow-on to the complexity, human motivations are not fixed things. The act of expressing an opinion forces you to examine it for yourself and relate it to the current context of your life, which is likely not identical (but can be mostly the same, especially in important parts) to the context under which that opinion was formed. Even under near identical context, reexamining thoughts changes their nature. That is one of the basic building blocks of learning. Polls don't reflect people's opinions. How do you figure that?
My answer to this part of your response is an interesting example of some of the above points. When I write my statement, I was only considering the statistical validity aspects of polls, not the other issues. I have personal and professional opinions about the other issues you raised, but I didn't actively think about them when forming my response. Complex opinions, changing contexts, difficult to completely express. WRT stats, for a poll to be "valid" that poll would first have to state a formal set of standards for validity. While we (probably) all have this underlying concept of the utility of "majority rule", even that idea has many aspects that would need to be specified and agreed upon to establish its utility as a validity requirement. Some of these are mentioned above
members vs. active members?
what is an active member?
force responses?
sock puppets? There are many others
equal weights for each datum?
what constitutes a majority?
how do we portion the response space (this is a HUGE one)?
etc. |
vagamer63 | 15 Jun 2014 11:13 a.m. PST |
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Arteis | 15 Jun 2014 1:59 p.m. PST |
@Etotheipi
er, OK
um
? Arteis (feeling a wee bit cognitively dissonant) |
altfritz | 15 Jun 2014 2:09 p.m. PST |
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etotheipi | 15 Jun 2014 3:37 p.m. PST |
feeling a wee bit cognitively dissonant Any particular reason? |
John the OFM | 15 Jun 2014 4:06 p.m. PST |
My sock puppets never chimed in on a Poll like "What is the best facing color for British infantry in the American Revolution?" Poll. That is IMPORTANT, and not to be trifled with. On silly Polls, like determining TMP policy, I figure that Dear Editor should be barking out ukases and ignore the peanut gallery. He should also be rigging the vote, so sock puppet votes are irrelevant. In those, as many of my sock puppets as I can remember the passwords for chime in. Usually to contradict each other. Cat Shannon and Frodo Corleone usually do not agree on anything. |
Arteis | 15 Jun 2014 4:10 p.m. PST |
feeling a wee bit cognitively dissonant Any particular reason?
Because I know I'm not really cognitively dissonant, but I'm saying I am feeling a wee bit so. But does the very fact of saying that then make me cognitively dissonant? But then, by agreeing with myself that I'm a wee bit cognitively dissonant, I'm now not cognitively dissonant after all
ooh er, my head is spinning
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captain canada | 15 Jun 2014 5:42 p.m. PST |
Self selection. Huff said. |
BigNickR | 15 Jun 2014 6:51 p.m. PST |
we have polls? (I have them hidden off to the side and autoshrunk) |
DS6151 | 18 Jun 2014 4:28 a.m. PST |
No. The answers are pre-chosen, and they rarely have anything close to what people really want. Also, and more important, most people don't even know they are happening. You have a handful of people that do nothing but post here and pretend they play games, and then there's the majority. It's the handful that answer polls. So polls are really a waste. Questions posed by the irrelevant, and answered by the same. |