Tango01 | 11 Jun 2014 10:28 p.m. PST |
"Five U.S. Special Forces troops and an Afghan soldier were killed Monday in a friendly fire incident reportedly involving bombs dropped by a U.S. Air Force B-1B bomber supporting a close air support mission. "The casualties occurred during a security operation when their unit came into contact with enemy forces," the International Security Assistance Force said in a statement. "Tragically, there is the possibility that fratricide may have been involved," ISAF said of the incident that occurred during a counter terror mission in southeastern Zabul province near the Pakistan border
" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
doug redshirt | 12 Jun 2014 5:03 a.m. PST |
A10s have killed friendlies too. Remember the first Gulf War. Most bombs now are guided anyway. Sure they can malfunction, but human error can be a bummer. |
James Wright | 12 Jun 2014 7:37 a.m. PST |
Yeah, I recall at least two incidents of A10 fratricide. The bummer is, it happens. It happens with any and every weapon system we have, from small arms to artillery. If a machine has as many moving parts, both literally and figuratively, sooner of later, stuff happens. And sadly, it probably always will. That said, I suspect it is much less common now than it has been before. The incidents of fratricide in WWII are numerous. |
Legion 4 | 12 Jun 2014 7:39 a.m. PST |
Yep
being a former Air Ops Officer in the 101
most unfortunately
in combat
not to be glib
but happens
It certainly saddens me at these losses to our own
My Father [SGT in 90th ID] was near where our bombers drop ordinance on our troops during Op Cobra in WWII
tragic
very tragic
|
Lion in the Stars | 12 Jun 2014 10:07 a.m. PST |
I think part of the problem with B1s as CAS is that the B1s seem to be loaded with big bombs. Mostly 2000lbers instead of 500lbers or 250lb Small Diameter Bombs. And 2000lb bombs have a dang big blast radius! |
troopwo | 12 Jun 2014 11:22 a.m. PST |
If the USAF has any sway in it, they'll stick a 20mm gatling in the nose of the B1. As curious as I am to see a B1 Lancer do a strafing run, I'll stick with the A10s. |
Sajiro | 12 Jun 2014 12:27 p.m. PST |
Not to wander into Blue Fez territory
but the sleek, swing wing design of the Bone doesn't seem to lend itself to the image of an aircraft suited for going low and slow to mix it up with bad guys at ground level like the Warthog does. Don't get me wrong, I like both and want both but the B-1 to me says "I'm in, I'm out, and your radar barely saw a thing." I also have to imaging that getting the B1 to turn tight corners in mountain passes is not for the faint of heart. |
Lion in the Stars | 12 Jun 2014 3:53 p.m. PST |
The B1 is big enough it could probably handle the GAU8 from the A10! But the idea of a bird *that* big doing gun runs close to the ground is serious pucker-factor
|
Mako11 | 12 Jun 2014 4:56 p.m. PST |
Strategic bombers are generally not very well suited to Close Air Support
.. |
Jemima Fawr | 12 Jun 2014 5:05 p.m. PST |
Yet that's what they've been doing for over ten years, Mako. |
GROSSMAN | 12 Jun 2014 7:05 p.m. PST |
Close air support from a B-anything is not a good idea
|
Klebert L Hall | 13 Jun 2014 5:55 a.m. PST |
but the sleek, swing wing design of the Bone doesn't seem to lend itself to the image of an aircraft suited for going low and slow to mix it up with bad guys at ground level like the Warthog does.
I also have to imaging that getting the B1 to turn tight corners in mountain passes is not for the faint of heart. It doesn't do any of those things, neither does the B-52 or B-2. They all orbit up in the stratosphere, and drop guided bombs for CAS. It isn't the airplane that is close in the supporting role, it's the ordnance. -Kle. |
Failure16 | 13 Jun 2014 9:07 a.m. PST |
Oh, I dunno, GROSSMAN, I'd feel pretty safe if I knew I had B-26K on standby:
As for low-level B-1s, I had the pleasure of being nuked by one at NTC once. It was flying pretty damn low at the time (but not as low as the AV-8B that got hit by a parachute flare). I didn't find out until much later that it was one of the aircraft from my sister's squadron on a deployment to Nevada. She never did like me all that much
Heh. |
Lion in the Stars | 13 Jun 2014 9:29 a.m. PST |
@Kle: Friend of mine got CAS from a B52 a couple times while he was in A-stan, and the BUFF was down in the weeds, below the ridgelines! At least the B1 is designed for working that low. |
Legion 4 | 13 Jun 2014 10:07 a.m. PST |
Yes, with the new upgrades, etc., B-52s & B-1s can do CAS, with Cruise missiles, JDAMs, etc.
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Legion 4 | 13 Jun 2014 10:07 a.m. PST |
DOH ! Double post !!!! |
Deadone | 15 Jun 2014 5:10 p.m. PST |
With PGMs, any aircraft is a CAS platform The French were even using Atlantique maritime patrol aircraft as LGB bombers in Mali. Atlantique is Frech equivalent to P-3 Orion. The gun (and unguided small rockets) are useful but most fast burners ala F-15/-16/-18 pack one as do helicopter gunships ala AH-64 or AH-1.
I think the greatest risk of retiring A-10 is loss of "CAS culture" as well as dedicated "centre of excellence" for CAS (fast jets are usually multirole with emphasis on A2A and bombers have long range strike as primary mission).
These may sound "touchy feely" or "airy fairy" but these kind of organisational cultural issues are very important in not only delivering a service/function but also developing new ways of doing it. For example a multi-role F-16 unit would probably lack the time (or motivation) to develop new or improve existing tactics and procedures. |