"Basing dismounted French dragoons for GdB" Topic

I am pretty sure that dismounted French dragoons were drilled in the same manner as French infantry, is that correct? What I would like to know is if they were also trained to operate as skirmishers? How have others based your dismounted dragoons for GdB?

I am using regular sized bases and just drop about half the Nummer of figs on it with some nice extra scenery.
That goes only for Minis in Skirmish poses that are also supposed to work as formend unit

I wrote this (below) on an another posting about dismounted Dragons. The Battalions were only 4 companies strong and I don't remember the battalion totals so I would do 4 stands of 6 or 4 stands of 8 for each battalion.

"At Jena the foot Dragoons consisted of 2 regiments(2 battalions each of 4 companies) attached to the Imperial Guard. Each company was formed from a single Dragoon regiment. The following regiments had a foot company in that orginization 2,6,8,11,12,13,14,16,17,18,10,21,22,25,26,& 27. These regiments then had only 3 mounted squadroons in most cases.
The elite company was the 1st company in all regiments, so it was unlikely any of the elites would be part of the formed dimounted companies. Now you might have some elite companies dismounted while skirmishing, but they would be in boots and not gaiters."

Thanks for the info VonBlucher. What I was hoping for was some idea of the tactical use of dismounted dragoons in the Spanish Peninsular wars. For example, if a dragoon regiment dismounted, how would they operate, as skirmishers or formed infantry?

In the Spain they would be skirmishing, and not used as formed infantry.

Hello xenophon!

I would be surprised to learn if the dragoon battalions formed in 1806 received any infantry training beyond basic, as they were never intended to be used as infantry. As far as I know their formation was always intended to be temporary. As soon as mounts could be found they were to be disbanded, which they were.

Other then perhaps replacements I don't think there were any dismounted dragoon regiments in Spain. They would have acted as any other cavalry in Spain. When dismounted certain troopers would be assigned to protect the squadron or regiment, but this was not really skirmishing and were never used as formed infantry, as far as I know.

In the Napoleonic wars dragoons had evolved into proper cavalry and I don't think they were used as infantry in any battle. They are however, one of the coolest looking infantry figures in formations or as skirmishers. So if I were you I would paint up a bit of both to be used in some of your "just for fun" games.

Best regards,

Glenn

Good Day Glenn,

You shall find that the Dragoons dismounted to skirmish in Italy, and I see no reason why they didn't in Spain.

In l'ordonnance de 1813 you shall find:

CINQUIME LECON: Pied a terre des dragons pour combattre

It explains who shall attend to the mounts, who shall skirmish, and how.

Best Regards
Art

G'Day Gents

At the Battle of Wertingen in 1805, approximently 60 dismounted Dragons taken from three regiments attempted to dislodge approximently 200 Austrians in the heights of Gottmannshofen. They were reenforced with another 120 demounted dragons lead by Exelmann.

We then have Klein who dismounted dragons to storm the bridge at Borkowo in Poland in Dec 1806.

Best Regards
Art

Hello Art!

Thanks for that, I never knew any of this before. I always suspected it, but never had any evidence. What about other cavalry, did any of them skirmish on foot as well?

Best regards,

Glenn

At the retreat from Waterloo, I think some British Hussars dismounted into a small village by a bridge (Genappe?) to hold up the French.

I have some dismounted French Cuitassier figures, skirmishing, from years ago I think by MJ figures. Nice figures, but I'm not at all sure that they ever did really, what with the armour & big boots etc. I'll use them eventually though :)

Hello Art!

Okay, yes I'm much older now and my memory is certainly fading, but Wertingen did ring a few bells. According to Scott Bowden in the final attack Exelmans actually led four entire regiments of dismounted dragoons that swarmed over the 200 Austrians in Hohenreichen. He states the first attack two squadrons, second four squadrons, third four regiments.

So clearly French dragoons can act as skirmishers, but how effect is another problem. It also seems to have taken some time to get them mounted again. Seems to be a number of complications for anyone to sort out who wants to use them this way in their games. Not to mention the horse holders who would of course be vulnerable to enemy cavalry.

Best regards,

Glenn

Thanks for the discussions about dismounted dragoons. Somebody also posted in an earlier related topic that dragoons were also drilled in close order infantry drill (I think that is the default training for many units? Kind of like bootcamp?)

In Esdaile's book on the Peninsular War, he also makes mention of a British hussar unit that dismounted and skirmished in a town. I cannot locate the reference however.

kyle

G'Day Gents

To add onto what has already been posted:

In 1805 at Elchingen the Austrian cuirassiers dismounted and attacked a village defended by French infantry. Despite musketry the heavies were able to penetrate it.

In 1805 as mentioned earlier, the French dragoons dismounted under Exelmans, but Austrian dragoons also joined in and fought on foot against the French dismounted Dragoons.

In March of 1807 one of the small engagements of the Russian Elisavetgrad Hussars dismounted to give support for the 21st Jagers (light infantry).

In 1807 a single squadron from the Russian Ingermanland Dragoons was dismounted and attacked the town of Mohrungen. Shikanov describes the attack on Mohrungen as executed by the Courland Dragoons. First, 18 volunteers and 2 officers dismounted and crawled toward the French. They quietly removed the pickets and then entire squadron of dismounted dragoons attacked. Behind the dismounted squadron was another squadron, this one was on horses. They captured 350 prisoners and freed 100 Russian and Prussian POWs. They also captured numerous carts and wagons belonging to MdE Bernadotte and 12.000 dukats. In this action also participated Soumy Hussars although they were not the main assault force on the town.

In 1809 "The Emperor mounted a hillock a close to the village, from whose gardens a dozen or so shots were fired in our direction. A squadron of chasseurs-a-cheval were riding close behind the Emperor (for the Guard chasseurs were still far to the rear). The Emperor ordered me to take this squadron and clear the village. The chasseurs advanced rapidly, ignoring the enemy fire, dismounted and closed with the enemy. A few hundred Austrians surrendered"

1808 or 1809 Sir Oman writes: "… several squadrons of them [Lahoussaye's dragoons] forded the river at different points, but unable to charge among the rocks and vines, they were forced to dismount and to act as skirmishers …" (Summerville – "March of Death")

In August 1810 a dismounted Russian cavalry regiment participated in the Storming of Rushchuk defended by the Turks.

During the siege of Tarragona in 1811, Boussart ordered his cavalry to dismount in order to climb the Alcova Hill. They managed to chase the Spanish troops from their positions.

In 1812 at Shevardino, the New Russia Dragoons and the Kiev Dragoons were fighting dismounted (v pieshem stroiu) supporting the foot skirmishers.

On August 16th 1812 the Russian Orenbourg Dragoons were in the rear guard of the retreating army. When enemy's flankers attacked them, these dragoons dismounted and made use of their carbines. With the support of 2 horse guns they held off all attacks until evening and then withdrew in good order passing through the burning city of Viazma.

On July 11th 1812 these was a small battle at Saltanovka. The terrain was very wooded so General Vasilchikov dismounted part of his cavalry in an effort to capture the bridge.

In August 1812 Chernishev with 5 Cossack regiments and 4 guns attacked the village of Weddin defended by squadron of 4th (Polish) Uhlan regiment, three (Polish) companies of infantry and 2 guns. The defenders were under Colonel Kostanecki. The ensuing battle raged for 11 hours and Cossacks made 10 attempts to capture the village. Approx. 500 Cossacks dismounted to combat as skirmishers, but to no avail.

In 1813 near Gelnhausen the French heavy cavalry and chasseurs dismounted and in skirmish order successfully attacked enemy in the vineyards.

In 1813 at Kulm part of the Russian Guard Cavalry Regiment (Chevaliers Garde) dismounted, grabbed their firearms and fought for few hours supporting the foot skirmishers.

In 1814 at Brienne, two dragoon regiments from Panchulitzev's 3rd Dragoon Division dismounted and together with infantry attacked Brienne. The Russians captured half of the town.

In 1814 the French dragoons dismounted and dashed into the town of Brienne in the midst of spreading flames. Then two regiments of Russian dragoons did the same.

In 1814 at Méry the French dismounted cavalry drove off several squadrons of Russian cavalry.

In 1815 near Frasnes the French Red Lancers dismounted and fired at picket of Nassauers. Other lancers moved on horseback and drove the enemy back.

I do not have my book, but the French 8th Hussars were used to work on a bridge, and dismounted to defend a village against the Austrians.

Best Regards
Art

Hello Art!

Thanks for taking the time to give us so many examples. It seems that we should allow all cavalry to dismount and skirmish/assault/hold etc. on foot. Just have to find the figures to use and decide how to rate them etc.

Best regards,

Glenn

Art:

I second Glenn;s appreciation for these examples of dismounted cavalry in combat. Now I am excited to finish up my dismounted French dragoons to go with the mounted troops.

I have not done alot of searching for dismounted cavalry, but Perry does French dragoons as does Brigade Games in the earlier uniform. I also saw that Redoubt does some dismounted British hussars which I intend to pick up also.

Best wishes,

Kyle