"A different way to use playing cards for activation?" Topic

I might have brought this idea up before, but what the heck we are here to discuss miniature games and rules correct?

I prefer to purchase rules for my war games and for the most part I never tweak them or at least I do not tweak them much. I have never been one of those war gamers that always want to write or create their own rules because it does take a darn long time to create a rule system especially if you take the time to play test it to the ninth degree.

However….

I got a wild idea today and wanted to bounce it off the wisdom of the TMP group collective.

This set of rules is not for a particular period or genre but I see it as mostly for large, as in huge convention games that need to engage lots of players, is easy to teach and learn, and plays fast through the turns. I know that is the Holy Grail for many games I suppose. The system would probably work best with Colonials or Horse and Musket.

So here goes the basic idea:

Players are dealt five regular playing cards just as in Poker. The value of the cards determines the order of activation for the player's unit(s). Each player would place one of their cards face down by the unit they wish to active and declare what order the unit will perform, i.e. move, shoot, reload, rally, special action. After all actions are declared the players then turn their chosen card face up. Highest card activates first, cards of the same value could be determined either by a die roll off or you could assign a suite hierarchy such as Spades are higher than Hearts, Hearts higher than Clubs, Clubs are higher than Diamonds, or however you wish to establish the hierarchy.

Ten sided dice are used to determine movement distance, shooting and other issues I have not quite worked out as of yet. You could even add another level of tactics in that the card played would provide a die modifier. Another possible aspect is that the specific suites could only be used for particular orders. In other words only Spades could be used for close combat actions, Diamonds are for moment, Hearts for morale or rally tests, and Clubs are for all shooting/ballistic tests.

OK this is just an extremely nascent idea so feel free to tear it apart or help build it up. Have fun. In fact as I re-read this I see some problems but please take a stab at it.

Kim

I tried something like this once. The playing cards became very much table clutter especially when the figures got in close.

Use the really small playing cards?

I like the idea of cards used in convention settings. IGOUGO is horrific in big con games with lots of units, whether or not there are numerous players per side or just a few.

I always thought of something along the lines of each player(s) (in multiples of 4) are assigned a suit ("Tom, you and Bill are Clubs") and then the GM turns over a deck one-by-one with whichever suit comes up getting to act with a unit--maybe even all phases with that unit. A turn consists of once through the deck, regardless of everything else.

I like the idea, but I would also leave them off the table as to keep the clutter down.

What if you let the players hold their hands and then have a die roll for initiative. Then that player plays his card to activate a unit, but if another player has a higher card they could play it to interrupt and activate a unit first.

Just a thought. It might not work too well, but then maybe it would. A player is not going to have all high cards in their hand and maybe you deal out as many cards as a player has units. So you have to be careful when you play a card to interrupt someone.

Matthew

I prefer IGOUGO for convention games. If this is is a game as you say with lots of players – let's say 10 for argument's sake – I'll spend 80% of my time watching other people, 10% taking my turn and 10% involved in defensive stuff (saving throws, hoping you roll snake eyes).

But in IGOUGO I am playing half the time and the other half I'm worried about what my counterpart is doing, making counter charges, saving throws etc. So at least I'm engaged.

I ran a card activation game with the following method. Each player had 5 units. Each player gets their own deck of cards with 5 cards (1 each representing their units) and 1 blank card.

When I played we had 4 players. So each had 6 cards. Each player then shuffles his own deck. in phase one everyone flips 1 card and does something with that unit. If 2 of these units are in conflict then they dice for who goes first. Otherwise everyone is now moving/shooting simultaneously.

If the blank card comes up for a player he doesn't get to activate anything this phase.

You do this for all 6 cards and then each player re-shuffles and you repeat. If a unit is eliminated then that card becomes another blank in that players deck.

The nice thing about this is it keeps everyone busy most of the time and does not suffer from the normal slowdown associated with card activation.

If players have different numbers of units then you just add blank cards to equalize the decks.

Ares uses this system and Operation Squad does something quite similar. They both work fine.

We use this method quite a lot, although we usually just deal the cards to the relevant units to introduce more friction. Ties resolved by suit order.

If concerned about clutter, use small cards or the card tiles from something like crosshand poker.

A great man once said

"The more they rethink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."

leidang,

I really like your option.

Vince

I agree with EC on this subject. Using card activation means that the speed of the game decreases linearly as you add players, and assigning the cards means that you increase the chance of decision paralysis as you wait for a player to assign their cards.

(Especially since assigning the cards is a new decision for most players.)

It's not a bad system for a two-player game, but IGOUGO is the preferred system for large games for a reason — it's that the game length doesn't really change, except that everyone has to only wait on the slowest player instead of waiting on everyone.

Dead Man's Hand works very much like this. They use small cards to avoid table clutter.

I'm with leidang. For convention games with multiple players, it is best to let several people go at a time.

When I run these, we start out in strict IGOUGO, then after two rounds (when people get the groove of the game), I ease the players into realizing that action here isn't affecting action there, so they can do things simultaneously, but locally players are going in the "right order".

Whitemanticore I really love your idea especially for multi player games. Im definitely going to try it out. I wouldnt necessarily place the actual cards beside the minis but as someone mentioned a simple unobtrusive marker would work nicely.

Youve got my imagination going now. Thanks for what I see as a brilliant idea :)

The difficulty with multi-player convention type games, is that if only one player can act at a time (in a conventional card driven activation system) it really slows the game down.
How about this for a dice driven activation system for large multi-player games (a simplified version of what I use in my Sword and Spear ancients & medieval rules):

Each player has a number of command dice equal to the number of units he commands. At the start of the turn, each player rolls all of their command dice.
The side with the highest number of 6s rolled has the initiative this turn. If both sides rolled the same number of 6s, then the number of 5s rolled determines which side has initiative (then the number of 4s, etc.).
Command dice are placed beside units, with the side with initiative placing first, then the other side.
Units are then activated in order of command dice, lowest first. In the case of a tie, the side with initiative goes first.
When a unit is activated it carries out its complete action for the turn – moving, shooting and close combat. You then remove the dice to show the unit has activated.
There are some possible variants, which will make the game move quicker (and create more interesting command decisions):
1)Any 1s (or 1s and 2s) rolled are discarded, so not all units will be allocated each turn.
2)Any 6s (or 5s and 6s) are not used to activate units, but are used to give combat bonuses. So you might allocate a unit a command dice of 3, plus a 6 to give it a combat bonus. Again, this will mean there are less units activated each turn, so will make the game move quicker.
With these variants, if a unit without a command dice fights in combat (because it is charged, or a unit in contact with it is activated), it fights at a disadvantage.

This gives an interactive turn sequence, where multiple players are activating units at the same time, so the game doesn't get slowed down.

@Marshal Mark:
I like that idea! I will try it out this weekend. Thanks.

+1

That is a clever idea, Mark.

You guys are full of good ideas. Nice one Mark