"Dutch Belgian Artillery 1815 Colours" Topic

I have a couple of questions about the Dutch Belgian artillery of the 100 Days Campaign.

1.What colour was used to paint ordnance and equipment? I know it was primarily French but I do not believe it was still green.

2. What colour was the harness on the train horses? Was it still basically French?

Can someone recommend a good source of illustrations?

Thanks in advance.

In the Perry's book, Masters in Miniature, the equipment is painted mid-grey.
No pics of train horses though…

There seems to be some doubt as to whether they painted their French 6# guns. Perhaps some and not others. I would expect the harness to be French.

Look, I am no expert. We need Summerfield etc, but I am assured that, in the limited time available, Netherlands military used what they had. In the luxury years well after 1815 they could use what you see in the Brussels museum ie British equipment in the right grey. Greater experts than I have commented here before on this, but French artillery green seems right for DB artillery (remember Belgium did not exist though, only Netherlands). I Have always used a compromise with Austrian yellower shade for my DBs……if you know your history, you will know why, the end result is half way between Osterreich and French green

see here:
link

Dear All
The Netherland Artillery was still in French Artillery green. The contemporary descriptions of Netherlands Artillery were various shades of brown.

French artillery green was 60-99 parts yellow ochre and 1 part lamp black. This gives a khaki green. The best colour was the old Humbrol French Artillery Green. Most paints are too green in colour.

The variation within the batteru would be large. The Netherlands Artillery did not use the British block trail system at this time.

The guns were AnXI 6-pdrs, 12-pdrs and 24-pdr Howitzers on "M1808" carriages. The limbers would be a collection of Gribeauval 8-pdr limbers and modified AnXI limbers. Presence of limber boxes could have been used. The Netherlands Artillery was what they inherited from being part of Metropolitan France. The motley appearance would not be much different to the French.

Stephen

Stephen,

I'll try to find them, but YouTube videos of modern French re-enactors (including a group that performs regularly at the Musee de l'Armee) have gun carriage, liimber and other kit that is more of a tan colour than a green – is it possible that this is what the Dutch had?

YouTube link

[Actually, the gun is a bit "greener" in this film than it is in many of the other I've seen, but it's still quite a light tone compared to the Humbrol paint.]

There are captured French guns (green, rather than tan) at the Tower of London that have plates on them suggesting they were cast at Dutch arsenals. Presumably if the Dutch artillery was re-equipped for the 1815 campaign, they would have used tubes cast "locally"?

This is a better example of the tan colour:-

YouTube link

Funny thing. Looks like the same team in both, certainly the officer is. I also wonder that they have the spongeman on the left of the gun and loader on the right (as one faces front), in both sequences. Surely the reverse applied in any army. I accept the British fired from the opposite side.
Let's ask the expert again. These folk clearly know their stuff. Did they get this wrong?

Still on my last pot of Matt 179 – French artillery green.

I see there is a new acylic, 252, RLM 82, Olivgrun Matt. Has anyone considered this a good colour for French artillery green?

The carriages at the Tower of London were constructed in the 1970s. These are unfortunately the wrong carriages for the guns which are AnXI 6-pdrs not Gribeauval 4-pdrs. They are painted in modern paints that do not match.

So the French as well as the Netherlands artillery would have variations from Yellow Ochre to Olive Green. Green is not a single sharp absorption band in the spectrum hence the variation in peoples percieved colour.

The Rammer is always on the right regardless of which side the firer is. Remember the dominant hand for most people is the right and this is always the outside hand. Ammunition was run up the opposite side to the firer.

I thought the expert might just know and I do thank God for his response (Summerfield's not God's)…..if he'd said otherwise I would have had many an artillery model to revise (as it is I do have one HA of the Guard where I got it wrong, my first ever Perry purchase).

I like the extra bit about the loader though. I can see why you would not walk past a guy with a burning match, whilst carrying a cartridge in your hands……never thought of it though….and let's remember British practice for the firer's position differed from French and most Continental (I nearly said European…..these days, we are all……)

I do still have several Humbrol Authenticolours (some never opened, which still seem liquid on shaking) and Artillery Green did just seem "right" somehow.

So many folk do get the positioning of the gun crew wrong. The expert has confirmed rammer/spongeman on the right as you face forwards, in any army. Now let's agree where goes the lad with the burning thing, whether it is the string wound around the stick, or that odd looking thing with a second stick at 45 degrees to the first……. that tells us where to put the loader, I now realise (safely on the other side)!

We now have Bavarian and Saxon and Russian and Austrian and Spanish (I'd imagine they'd be somewhere) artillery…let alone the folk who met around Mt St Jean and Plancenoit nearly 200 years ago. Who stood where and did what? That could be invaluable info!!!!!!!