"Use of the Young Guard on the table top (1815)" Topic

Having just finished the Young (present at waterloo) i started to wonder how they would be used on the tabletop.

The Voltigeurs were effectively light infantry able to operate in close order and open order. no problem with that.

The Tiralleurs, on the hand appear to be 'heavy' or shock troops, (grenadiers??)

So on a table top, would these Tiralleurs be deployed in open order, or just operate in close order?

Having painted the close order troops, i am now staring work on these in open order. If the Tiralleurs (usually) only operated in Close Order, then i will only need to paint the Voltigeurs (yeahhh) Is anyone going to burst my bubble? LOL

Both generally operated in close order. Both names would indicate they were light troops though the names were somewhat ornamental (the Chasseurs à Pied de la Garde Imperale didn't commonly fight in open order but their name also would tell one they were a light unit, the Grenadiers à Pied would not be thought of as a light unit due to its name but it was perfectly capable of operating in open order).

Easy rule of thumb: all French Guard units may operate in open order, none of them did it commonly or exclusively. Someone might correct me with regard to the Flanquers as I don't know their battle record.

Cheers,

The Bandit

The Chasseurs of the old Guard, as well as the Young Guard did deploy as skirmishers from time to time. That was the point, they could be either close or open order troops.

The Final Guard attack at Waterloo had skirmishers out in front. The Young Guard actions on the right flank against the Prussians did deploy some companies as skirmishers, and of course fought in what was considered the skirmishers' arena villages and woods.

The idea that some troops were used exclusively for light infantry work and others never is a wargaming convention for convenience sake, a view more suited to the SYW [to some extent] than the Napoleonic wars.

teper1961,

teper1961: So on a table top, would these Tiralleurs be deployed in open order, or just operate in close order?

Bandit: …all French Guard units may operate in open order, none of them did it commonly or exclusively.

McLaddie: The Chasseurs of the old Guard, as well as the Young Guard did deploy as skirmishers from time to time.

I guess I answered based on the understanding you were talking about the whole unit deploying in open order not just sending forward skirmishers.

My understanding is that as I said, the whole units were rarely deploy in open order but as Bill [McLaddie] added it was very common for the close order units to deploy skirmishers and I would add to that all French Guard units should be considered capable of operating in open order.

Cheers,

The Bandit

The rules system i use, allows the player to deploy the light Company or in the case of a light Battalion, all of them in Skirmish order.

My Young Guard Battalions are 16 figures each, and I've painted the 8 battalions present at Waterloo.

Now that Ive finished the Young Guard in close order bases, i was hoping to get away with having only to paint the YG Voltigeurs in Open order (bases). From what you all say, it seems not :( oh well!

I would hate to paint the same unit twice just so you can represent a formation change…. expensive in both time and money… I'm sure it's pretty though.

I do not like to paint the same unit twice either. What I do is simply create some extra bases with foliage only. To represent a unit in skirmish formation I simply exchange half the bases for foliage bases. This changes the look of the unit without having to paint it up twice. I play Lasalle where units in "irregular order have the same " footprint and the number of figures on a base is irrelevant which makes this easy.

In practice in 1815 the Young Guard were committed against the Prussians on the Eastern flank around Plancenoit, so fought in 'open' order as much as there is any 'order' in FIBUA!

But yes, essentially Army level reserve 'shock' troops…

I guess I answered based on the understanding you were talking about the whole unit deploying in open order not just sending forward skirmishers.

Yes, I would imagine that is true, emphasis on the 'imagine' because I don't know what constitutes 'rare' in this case as opposed to it 'being done' when desired.

For instance, would you expect the Pavlov Grenadiers in 1813 would be deployed in whole battalions as skirmishers, let alone base them as such? [They certainly were shock troops, I would imagine… they'd just been awarded Guard status]

Yet, at Lutzen all three battalions of the regiment fought as skirmishers the entire battle in the woods, no less [Imagine running around in mitres in the woods…] That might be seen as a waste of shock troops, unless you really wanted to win the skirmish contest.

At the other end of the wars, in 1794, Coberg's Austrian army in the Netherlands deployed almost all the third rank of his line infantry as skirmishers to go and beat the French.

However, for a wargamer, having one third of your tabletop infantry represented by skirmish stands can be a real pain, let alone moving and administering combat… So designers make up rules to simplify. Only specialists can skirmish etc. etc.

…I don't know what constitutes 'rare' in this case as opposed to it 'being done' when desired.

Yet, at Lutzen all three battalions of the regiment fought as skirmishers the entire battle in the woods, no less [Imagine running around in mitres in the woods…] That might be seen as a waste of shock troops, unless you really wanted to win the skirmish contest.

Sure, I guess I figure, those guys did it at Lutzen but they didn't at many others, thus comparatively it was rare which might simply be to say, "the desire to have them do it didn't come up much."

Cheers,

The Bandit

G'Day Gents

At the battle of Hanau, two battalions of Old Guard that were assigned as appui mobile for the massed battery, also fought as skirmishers in the woods.

Best Regards
Art