"What is the "official" way to build armies in 7th edition?" Topic

I'm not much of a 40k gamer these days, but looking at the new rulebook I cant help but notice there doesnt seem to be a "set" way of building an army. Unless I'm missing something

Yes, I know the Force Organization chart still exists and is unchanged from 6th, but thats where I'm getting a little confused.

According to the rules it says an army is made up of Detachments, just like 6th. But then the book says that an army is made up of any number of detachments (unlike in 6th where you need I believe 2k points before you're allowed another detachment). Am I reading that right? So As long as I keep fulfilling the minimum of 1HQ+2Troops per detachment, I can have any number of of these detachments? So even in a 1k game I could have 6 HQs?

Also since there doesnt seem to be any limit to the number of detachments, whats the point of the allied detachment FoC? It seems more beneficial to use the normal FoC to use for allies to get more slots. Unless once again I have all the rules for building an army confused.

It just seems extremely vague.

It got up to 6th edition and now 7th wants to revert to a mesh of rogue trader and 2nd ? I'm confused now.
Did not get past 4th myself but what you describe sounds like a more personal fluff or scenario based army , are there more involved missions or objectives to allow for these new hybrid army lists?
I have not really helped here have I, sorry about that but this is interesting change from previous rigid army building.

So even in a 1k game I could have 6 HQs?

Yes, but the thing is would you win many games?

The answer would be no you wouldn't.

Step 1) throw away all your old invalidated armies
Step 2) Spend $350 USD on the new Marine Force with 15 infantry, a dreadnaught and a tank!

I can't answer the OP's specific question as I've yet to see the new rules. But is the confusion arising from the set lists or the free for all ones?

There are bound and unbound armies, bound ones follow the force organisation chart and unbound means you field what you like.

The plus side is that you can now field "fluffy" armies or if you wish to deploy an army of snotlings then fill your boots.

Yes Jim I know that there are Bound and Unbound armies, Unbound literally means "use whatever"

The Bound armies though is what is confusing me. So if I'm reading the rules right, Bound armies are made up of Detachments which use the good ol FoC (1-2HQs, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 everything else…and then the 0-1 Fortifications and Lord of War…).

But there doesnt seem to be a limit on the amount of detachments you can field. So in my example above, I can field 6 HQs as long as I also fulfill the required troops (which would be 6).

A-ha I see, it's the normal force selection then. I haven't heard of such changes, but as we know the force selection isn't complicated.

Sounds like GW have simplified it right down. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm picking a copy up at the weekend to have a good read.

Yes, you can have any number of Primary and Allied detachments as you suggest.

For your 6 x HQ example, you would need 12 x Troops since Primary detachments are min 1 x HQ and 2 x Troops.

The Allies detachment is min 1 x HQ and 1 x Troops (and must be a different faction to the Primary).

…or:

Primary: 1 x HQ + 2 x Troops
Allied: 5 x HQ + 5 troops

…plus other combos.

6 detachments comprising of 6 HQ's and 12 Troops reminds me of the WWII joke "Never before has so few been led by so many."

Step 1) throw away all your old invalidated armies
Step 2) Spend $350 USD USD on the new Marine Force with 15 infantry, a dreadnaught and a tank!

Whew! Good thing this didn't actually happen…

Damon.

But there doesnt seem to be a limit on the amount of detachments you can field. So in my example above, I can field 6 HQs as long as I also fulfill the required troops (which would be 6).

Then if you do that it would make the army Unbounded.

Then if you do that it would make the army Unbounded.

But according to the rules of detachments, it is still bounded. Just that it is made up of detachments

This is my example listed out of the 6 HQs and 6 Troops

Primary Detachment
x1 Required HQ (Warlord)
x1 Optional HQ
x2 Required Troops

2nd Detachment
x1 Required HQ
x1 Optional HQ
x2 Required Troops

3rd Detachment
x1 Required HQ
x1 Optional HQ
x2 Required Troops

I'm not trying to power game or break the system or anything, I actually am genuinely confused whether there is some sort of actual limit. It seems that as long as you keep fielding HQs and Troops, then you can have any amount of the other slots, which seems weird given the previous natures of 40k (and Fantasy) which have clearly defined limits.

If you follow the lousy FoC you will not have an Unbound army.

You don't follow it you will have an Unbound army.

But this Edition is not going over well with the GW Fanboyz.

Like Eldar being able to summon daemons hell anyone can summon daemons.

I stop playing 40k nearly 14 years ago when GW decided to screw over the rules.

Jake

You have it exactly right.

150 snotlings with frag grenades and slings!!!!! Oh Yeah!

GW loosened the FoC detachment limits in this edition to open up the game to greater possibilities and the inclusion of more varieties of miniatures and models from their line. I read in WD that they gave up on trying to balance the game in terms of Army A versus Army B and admitted that some armies just don't match up well against others. When they released the new Imperial Knights they knew they changed the game fundamentally.

So stop worrying about detachment limits and embrace 40K for all the new possibilities and variety it gives gamers.

Yup, you can play Grey Knights and summon Daemons.

Then again everyone can summon Daemons now.

So make that 2000 point army list and on the first turn see if you can see if you can summon 500 or more points of Daemons.

Yup, you can play Grey Knights and summon Daemons.

No, Grey Knights specifically cannot summon daemons, as they are barred from taking Malefic Daemonology powers.

Okay but the rest of the armies aren't.

So you can take a Space Force ally with Grey Knights and then summon Daemons.

Fluffwise, I don't see what's wrong with everyone summoning daemons. Even in Rogue Trader, the other psychic races were not immune to the attentions of warp creatures. It was just that humanity was new to psychic power so less protected.

If a psyker of any race (psyker was originally just applied to human psycics) open themselves to Chaos then the daemons come rolling in.

If it's a cynical ploy of GW to sell daemons then it's a shame. FWIW, I'm a Dark Eldar player so I can't summon daemons.

Ah but you can ally with Eldar and then you could.

The *only* thing about the new daemon summoning rules is the possibility that this means that new Greater Daemon models may be incoming…

Seriously, with 7th Edition GW have given people the tools to play any kind of game they want. You want strict force orgs, go for it. You want to make a hodgepodge, go ahead. You want to play 6th edition missions, feel free. You want to try new ones, have fun. You want to mix them, the rules cover that too. It's amazing to see people complain about being given a massive toolbox to play with. The only people in any kind of quandary are a) people who cannot come to a gentlemen's agreement on how to play and b) hardcore tournament gamers. For a) there is no remedy; and for b) the tournament community will probably require Bound force orgs and the 6th edition missions and move on with their lives. Seriously, people should just relax. GW does a lot of things wrong, but greatly expanding the ways players can enjoy their game and models is not one of those things.

If a psycher uses a Malefic or Sanctic Daemonology power, they will suffer Perils of the Warp on any roll of doubles. Grey Knights cannot use Malefic powers but do not suffer Perils on doubles for Sanctic powers. The opposite is true for psychers with the Daemon special rule.

Since the Primaris Malefic power that lets you summon daemons requires 3 Warp Charges, you would need to roll 6 dice to have a decent chance of pulling it off (since you need a 4+ to generate a warp charge). ANY doubles on those dice will result in Perils, most likely meaning a wound to the psycher. Sumoning a Greater Daemon requires a roll of 6 on the psychic powers chart when generating your powers. It also requires 3 Warp Charges.

If you summon a greater daemon, it will arrive flying if it has wings and that will mean it has to land next turn so it can't charge until the turn after that. Greater daemons require you to sacrifice your psycher, which may be expensive for some armies. Even a greater daemon without wings could only run, and would be vulnerable to being shot for at least the next turn.

You can summon a daemonic herald for 1 warp charge, which you could then use to summon other daemons. You could also summon a Lord of Change which could remain flying and do your summoning for you. You could also add an allied detachment of Tzeentch daemons to summon for your army.

But overall, I would rate daemon summoning as "not worth it" for most armies, with the possible exception of Eldar… and honestly I think they would have tougher builds than dabbling in summoning.

Daemons can run an army that is based on summoning that is apparently pretty tough (according to Internet wisdom). I faced an army with daemons and 18 Warp Charge dice last weekend and was able to shoot and assault the summoned daemons fast enough to devastate them. But that army was not optimized for summoning.

There are a lot of rumors about the daemon summoning on the Internet, and a lot of panic. The best thing to do is see how it shakes out over the next couple of months as people learn the strengths and limitations of Malefic Daemonology, and how to deal with it. There are a lot of people posting stuff on the Internet who, frankly, haven't bothered to read the rules or actually play 7th edition. In fact these are some of the loudest voices you will hear.

40K: The Gathering….