"Heinz good Aryan is calling for a further purge" Topic

Some people are evidently not happy with the changes to TMP that have been made so far. Heinz good Aryan in particular seems to be building up to asking for a new purge, a new campaign to call for means to block other members threads from appearing in their view of the message boards. Thereby attempting to obliterate all memory of those people that dare to arouse such feelings of intolerance in their hearts.
John the OFM and others were spot on when he predicted that the changes would not be enough for the people who have had a taste of blood and now want more.
I know that you can't treat intolerance, so I will not even try, but I will make some general points on this.

1. These purges and calls for change seem to be coming from a small minority; we have had months of bitterness and after all that only 50 or so people have actually used the new ignore feature on Tango. Which could mean that either the "problem" was not as big as we were told it was, and/or it was only a relatively very small number of people (with their sock puppets) that had a problem the first place.
2. These new changes seem to be slowing down the functioning of TMP from a technical point of view, problems with posting and website speed etc. There are a number of reports of this. The ignore feature has had to be turned off, and the Editor has already spent a lot of time looking for a fix. Any new changes may also impact on the smooth running of the site. It seems that a small number of people and their intolerances are now inpacting on the enjoyment of the site for the majority. Irony of ironies.
3. Is it right that most of these people who are clamouring for all the changes and whipping up a stink, including Heinz good aryan, are not even supporting members of the site? Seems to me that if they want to "save TMP's soul", or whatever they think they are doing now, they should at least cough up some dough to support the site.
4. It's only fair that I (and others if they wish) start specifically naming these people, including naming them in thread titles. Lets see if they are as ready to bully and attack other people when they they themselves are in the spotlight too. I have complained to the Editor repeatedly that isolating Tango and starting all these threads about him amounts to bullying and harrassment, but he has stated that people need to be given a voice if they have concerns about the functioning of the site.
Well, I have concerns too, and I am sure I am not alone.

As someone told me once a long time ago…

"The first group of people they take to the large mass grave and shoot in the back of the head is a pretty small one….Each successive group gets a little larger. They don't want to do all of them at once as to incite mass panic and instill fear within the populace, and to make sure that others cooperate, until it too….is their turn to be marched to the freshly dug hole in the ground…"

Kind of operating on the same principle here, no???….

To be fair, most of them seem to be happy with the ignore function. It seems to be just one guy seeking an echo chamber who is disrupting TMP Talk with his behaviors.

2. These new changes seem to be slowing down the functioning of TMP from a technical point of view, problems with posting and website speed etc.

I have not noticed any problems with posting or speed even while the Ignore function was turned on. I did notice TMP was a bit slow to load yesterday, but the Ignore function was turned off then.

The ignore feature has had to be turned off, and the Editor has already spent a lot of time looking for a fix.

As I understand it, The Editor turned off the Ignore function in response to the reports because he was not in a position to implement a fix at that time. I gather he will do so tomorrow.

Some people are evidently not happy with the changes to TMP that have been made so far. Heinz good Aryan in particular seems to be building up to asking for a new purge, a new campaign to call for means to block other members threads from appearing in their view of the message boards.

To be honest, the original description of the OverStifle (now Ignore) didn't specify whether it applied only to the homepage or not.

These new changes seem to be slowing down the functioning of TMP from a technical point of view…

Yes, I need to rejigger the code.

However, the complaints were about the homepage allegedly being dominated by Tango, so they received what they asked for. HgA is being greedy.

dont forget to check the selenium rectifyer, Bill.

so they received what they asked for

Exactly. They should have been more intelligent when phrasing their complaints. Of course, it gives the gulag types another campaign to run. Oh goody, that'll be about as much fun as crawling naked over splintered Geri Halliwell CD's.

My only hope is that the Editor will not pander to every whinge from the tiny but vocal minority.

I think HgA is trying to honor his name…. I think that that is the only thing he is succeeding.
Meanwhile I have noticed no problem with TMP at all and I log in every day.

Can I volunteer to crawl naked over Geri Halliwell with my splinter please Mr Warrior, sir your greatness, grovel grovel.

While I don't personally care whether the ignore is expanded in this way, as I believe the great OFM said "once it is off the front page it is dead to me." I am baffled as to why a few individuals are getting so worked up over how other people enjoy the site. Gulag types? Being greedy? Such sillyness.

They can enjoy it however they want, but people like HgA are disrupting the site and its functioning. It just reminds me of the Wikipedia editing wars over whether images of Muhammad could be shown (or if they should be removed or hidden) because a minority of editors did not want to see them.

I take no satisfaction (well, maybe just a little …) from the prescient screen name I chose for my cell phone sock puppet.
After "they" get the ability to make offenders non-persons, "they" will then demand the ability to purge their targets from TMP altogether.

Wasn't this supposed to be just about Armand "crowding threads off the front page"? Didn't "they" get that?

No more votes, no more polls on this subject. The front page is fixed.

Btw, "they" refers not to those with reasonable arguments but to the fanatics who are always behind the scenes.

I have no dog in this fight, since I have no intention of using the ignore, but if you're going to give the whiners the capability to "ignore" someone, you might as well make it total and have the posts of the ignored disappear from the message board pages in addition to the front page.

Doug

I'm wondering if there is any point me trying to explain the difference between trying to censor something so nobody can see it (as in the wikipedia issue you mentioned) and setting up a system so people who choose not to see it don't have to while those who choose to see it can (as we have here).

I think I'll just leave you with a quote from the editor "To be honest, the original description of the OverStifle (now Ignore) didn't specify whether it applied only to the homepage or not." So it isn't people being greedy, it is just people here trying to establish how they would like TMP to be, which (whether we agree with them or not) seems to be exactly what the TMP talk message board is for….

I have to say that I am pleased with the ignore option. There are literally a couple of big mouthed individuals here who I am enjoying not seeing. I don't feel the need for any further changes but I like what we now have.

Actually (and you can read the discussion archives), a user/login-only hidden image setup was suggested and rejected over there. It was fascinating to watch the arguments unfold in real time after the Danish Cartoon incidents, but in the end they were told to just not look at them since Wikipedia won't make special accommodations to hide or censor anything not violating the Wikipedia ToS. Why we cannot do that here I do not understand.

My two cents – anyone who made a contribution to the various TMP talk threads of the past two weeks, and are still banging away at each other now (irrespective of what side of the fence they are on) need to take a breather and try something different.

Maybe look at taking up a hobby, can I suggest wargaming?

they were told to just not look at them since Wikipedia won't make special accommodations to hide or censor anything not violating the Wikipedia ToS. Why we cannot do that here I do not understand.

Wikipedia performs a different function to TMP. Wikipedia's primary purpose is not to be a forum, but rather an information repository. TMP, OTOH, is primarily a forum.

A forum is a place for free discussion of information, so the differences are not as huge as you might think. At any rate, wouldn't it be poor etiquette to ignore those that you disagree with? Not to mention violating the nature of a free forum?

Perhaps Dear Editor should just say, "This is too much trouble. Wait for TMP 4.0 and stop bothering me."

There is something awful mean spirited, fanatical even, in wishing to wash away all traces of an account. It's rather sick, if you ask me.
As my dear friend Winston suggests, how long before "they" wish to ostracize and remove those who offend them? And then wipe out all traces of whatever they have written in the past? How many votes will that require? Certainly not a majority of TMP accounts, but what number? Will sock puppets get to vote on that?

mrausten,

"Gulag types" was a bit over-the-top of course, but I think you should partially reconsider your objection to the term considering that it was used in response to someone who is calling himself "Heinz good aryan". Hmmm, any ideological link at all there?

The truth of the matter IMHO is that there isn't anything wrong with wanting to reconfigure/customise the site the way you want it to be, and some of the changes made/proposed may well be sensible ones coming from sensible people, but you have to understand that there are people in life that simply hate free speech and want to see it rubbed out. There are bullies and they are serial whingers and there are those who simply cannot stand to be disagreed with, ever. Some very perceptive people like John OFM and 20thMaine and RebelYell and others saw this coming a while back, and they correctly characterised the motivations of *some* of these people. The desire to bully Tango had very little to do with stopping spam, and I strongly doubt if they even have Tango on super-stifle (the small amount of ignores Tango has would possibly bear this out).
*They* have their uber-stifle and yet they are still not satisfied, nor will they EVER be. They are seeking to create external scape-goats for their own internal nastiness. You can defend them if you want but personally I wouldnt waste a drop of cyber ink to defend them, but of course it is up to you.

This is just a miniatures forum, its not that important, but I think it's important in life generally to not to pander to every whinge from a small but vocal minority. Always leads to problems.

Hi TelesticWarrior. I may be wrong but I think you are getting your bad guys mixed up as I thought gulags were more soviet with aryan being the nazi ideal. Happy to confirm I am frequently wrong though! I may well agree with some of what you say, but the silly name calling and hyperbole on both sides slipped past ridiculous quite a while back.

Some of "they" thought the ignore would do more, the editor himself agrees that it wasn't clear.

someone who is calling himself "Heinz good aryan". Hmmm, any ideological link at all there?

I thought his name was just a rather subtle play on the name of a well known German WW2 tank commander? The commander in question probably did consider himself a "good Aryan".

I like the Ignore function as it is: only affecting the home page feed, and leaving the ignored user's posts visible on the message boards themselves, or when running a search.

I thought his name was just a rather subtle play on the name of a well known German WW2 tank commander?

Who knows, neither reason would surprise me.

Hi TelesticWarrior. I may be wrong but I think you are getting your bad guys mixed up as I thought gulags were more soviet with aryan being the nazi ideal.

Well yeah, obviously, but they are both wings on the same ugly bird in terms of this topic. I thought my intent was clear?

I like the Ignore function as it is: only affecting the home page feed

I agree, although something tells me we haven't heard the last of this.

Two deleted comments. Maybe we have heard the last of this?

I saw the posts before they were deleted. Nothing bad or wrong in them.

I remember a time, long ago, when we talked about miniatures and games and stuff like that.

Those days are apparently gone.

But keep in mind in those days there were very few new posts created in a single day. Just an observation.

there are people in life that simply hate free speech and want to see it rubbed out.

Maybe those people understand the idea of free speech better than you do.

Freedom of Speech is not the inalienable right to an audience.

Freedom of Speech is not freedom from consequences of that speech.

If someone ignores what you're saying, they aren't bullying you, and they sure aren't abridging your free speech.

something tells me we haven't heard the last of this.

And thank you for that hilarious bit of irony.

There is something awful mean spirited, fanatical even, in wishing to wash away all traces of an account. It's rather sick, if you ask me.

There is indeed something sad about people who wish to filter their world down to only what they want to hear or see, primarily because they eliminate their own chances of finding diamonds in the rough, so to speak. But if that's what they want, and if that will shut them the hell up, and if nobody loses by it but themselves, then so let it be written, so let it be done. If they continue to yammer, or if they call for someone's banishment merely because they don't like the content (in volume or subject, assuming it breaks none of Bill's own rules) that that someone posts, then dawghouse them.

Doug

Snootypus,

Looks like your'e jumping to conclusions. Who said that freedom of speech had anything to do with an "inalienable right to an audience" or "freedom from consequences of that speech"?
I never said that I was being bullied, or that ignoring someone is bullying them. I already said that some of the suggested and implemented changes may well be sensible ones, but that there are a cadre of people here who obviously want to go further than that and punish people for the sake of punishing them. It is these people that should be confronted when they start getting loud.

Have you even read the last few threads on this?

RebelYell wrote:

However, the complaints were about the homepage allegedly being dominated by Tango, so they received what they asked for.

Yup. And while a couple of folks on both sides of the issue keep stirring things up, one would hope everyone would just chill on the whole matter.

People asked for this feature. Bill gave it to them. The matter has been dealt with. Acknowledge and move on.

This "I never want to even see their name" vibe is just creepy.

Or you're just being trolled.

i wonder whether teletastic warrior is the latest account for connard sage. the guys on frothers or at least some of them think its funny to rile up the americans. they know there are some people here who are fanatically protango and that this would start up another food fight….

anyway

this is not new its something many of us we have asked for all along. not sure why people want others to be forced to read something they don't want to read.

not all of us read from the front page. many people go directly to the forums. that is what i do. i don't want to spend half my time on tmp clicking on and then leaving the latest barrage from tango.

this has nothing to do with free speech, of course. he can post all the links and repost news that has already been posted all he wants and god bless him. god bless also the people who love what he does. i just want the option to ignore it, which will be done quietly and without bothering anyone. very puzzled about why some people here are so hysterical over that notion…..

I have read (some of) the threads, but I haven't seen any instances of:

"asking for a new purge" of anyone

"attempting to obliterate all memory" of someone

any desire to "isolate Tango"

"gulag types"

"demand[ing] the ability to purge their targets from TMP altogether"

"the desire to bully Tango"

These are all motivations and emotions that *you* are projecting onto other people. I don't like Tango's posts, which I find to be 99% useless to me. If I didn't see them, I could eliminate about half of the chaff that I have to sort through on this forum to get to the stuff I'm interested in. How does that harm you, or Tango, or anybody else?

Do you meticulously read every piece of spam email you get, in case there's a nugget of wisdom hidden in one of them? Or do you selectively sort out the emails you receive, ignoring the ones you know don't interest you, so that you don't waste time on them?

Why are you so invested in me reading posts I don't want to?

As my show of support for free speech I am un-stifling the 4 people I stifled. :-)

not all of us read from the front page. many people go directly to the forums. that is what i do. i don't want to spend half my time on tmp clicking on and then leaving the latest barrage from tango.

I smell more BS from the usual suspects. I use the same method to explore TMP as is described here, i.e going directly to the forums and ignoring the front page altogether, and I have never seen a "latest barrage from Tango". Maybe one post on perhaps 10% of the sub-forums? Maybe even less than that? First we were told that the major issue was with threads slipping off the front page too fast (the fact that a very low number of people have actually used the ignore feature on Tango would suggest that this was not actually such a humongous problem after all). Now we are being told that the major issue is the creation of all this spam on the actual threads. I'm calling bull on that too. Any evidence to support your hyberbole?

I have read (some of) the threads, but I haven't seen any instances of: "asking for a new purge" of anyone", attempting to obliterate all memory" of someone, any desire to "isolate Tango"…..

You haven't looked hard enough. I just scrolled down the Talk forum and straight away I found a couple of threads calling for Tango to be given his own board which he is to be restricted to posting to. I would call that trying to "isolate Tango" Lol. I also just found a thread in which somebody named Nathaniel is repeat posting that Tango's evil threads are showing up when he does historical TMP searches, so those need to be purged too. This witch hunt truly is the gift that keeps on giving.

These are all motivations and emotions that *you* are projecting onto other people.

Or maybe it's just that you're not perceptive enough to perceive intention even when it is obvious to lots of other people.

If I didn't see them, I could eliminate about half of the chaff that I have to sort through on this forum to get to the stuff I'm interested in.

More exaggerated bull.

Why are you so invested in me reading posts I don't want to?

There is no investment in that from me. If you don't want to read the posts then don't read them. I don't believe for a second that your life is so important that you can't spare half a second to click the back button to get get rid of something you don't like and move on to the next post.

i just want the option to ignore it, which will be done quietly and without bothering anyone. very puzzled about why some people here are so hysterical over that notion…..

Because we don't necessarily trust you guys now. We have already seen these last few weeks that when you give the tiny minority of moaners an inch, they will keep pushing for the mile. OFM predicted this months ago, and he has been shown to be correct. Why are you wasting Bills time with all this when he could be moving on to bigger and brighter issues? Darthfozzywig said it best; "People asked for this feature. Bill gave it to them. The matter has been dealt with. Acknowledge and move on".

P.S. I don't think any of us on this side of the argument are hysterical over this, if anything we have been having a good laugh about the pettiness of some of the reasons and arguments used by you lot. The side clamouring for the "saving of the soul of TMP" would seem to be the hysterical ones.

i wonder whether teletastic warrior is the latest account for connard sage. the guys on frothers or at least some of them think its funny to rile up the americans.

What has being American got to do with anything? And no, I'm not Connard Sage, he was much funnier than I am.

not all of us read from the front page. many people go directly to the forums. that is what i do. i don't want to spend half my time on tmp clicking on and then leaving the latest barrage from tango.

I'm trying to understand your perspective on this one. Do you instinctively recognize a Tango post base upon the thread title, or do you click on a thread, squeal, and quickly click the previous page button to avoid Tango contamination? If so, why did you click in the first place and what harm will happen if you read his posts?

I don't think Telestic Warrior is John the OFM either. I would know.

My sock puppet emptied my bank balance last night. If he tries to sleep with my girlfriend he's a dead man.

not all of us read from the front page. many people go directly to the forums. that is what i do. i don't want to spend half my time on tmp clicking on and then leaving the latest barrage from tango.

Except that doesn't happen, since Tango (excuse me – "any individual poster") doesn't post that much to any single board. And frankly, there isn't enough activity on any single board that half a dozen posts by anyone is going to be disruptive.

First Amendment, nuff said

First Ammendment is irrelevant here.

Man, and I thought *I* had a lot of free time on my hands…

funny to rile up the americans.

Well it's not without its moments. But I'm mostly on here, so don't count…

My two cents – anyone who made a contribution to the various TMP talk threads of the past two weeks, and are still banging away at each other now (irrespective of what side of the fence they are on) need to take a breather and try something different.

Maybe look at taking up a hobby, can I suggest wargaming/

McWong's post is so damn spot on, I though we could all read it again?

Done deal folks, lets all move on – please just let those saddoes that can't stew in their own juice without the oxygen of publicity…