Prof Pate | 27 May 2014 10:06 a.m. PST |
Anyone got good guides? Ospreys show Nieuports in White. But they served in mixed squadrons with 1 1/2 Strutters and Pups which were in PC-10 mostly. Did Nieuports re-paint? Anyone? Ta John FOA |
Dave Jackson | 27 May 2014 10:45 a.m. PST |
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Onomarchos | 27 May 2014 11:46 a.m. PST |
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gweirda | 27 May 2014 12:33 p.m. PST |
Looks like 8, 9, and 10 Naval? |
Doms Decals | 27 May 2014 1:16 p.m. PST |
Depends on the Nieuport type and the date – clear doped linen, aluminium dope, French brown and green camo, and PC10 were all used on some British Nieuports. (Never white – any "white" looking representation is likely clear doped linen or aluminium dope, depicted badly.). RNAS Nieuports were mainly early models – 10s and 11s, so predominantly CDL. I can't offhand think of a unit that mixed them with Pups and Strutters though. |
gweirda | 27 May 2014 2:42 p.m. PST |
I can't vouch for the source, but this is why I posted
(squadron, aircraft, service dates from/to) Britain 8(N) Nieuport 17 10 1916 12 1916 Britain 8(N) Sopwith 1.5 Strutter 10 1916 11 1916 Britain 8(N) Sopwith Pup 10 1916 2 1917 Britain 8(N) Sopwith Triplane 2 1917 9 1917 Britain 8(N) Sopwith Camel 9 1917 4 1918 Britain 208 Sopwith Camel 4 1918 11 1918 Britain 9(N) Nieuport 17 2 1917 6 1917 Britain 9(N) Sopwith Pup 2 1917 6 1917 Britain 9(N) Sopwith Triplane 2 1917 7 1917 Britain 9(N) Sopwith Camel 7 1917 4 1918 Britain 209 Sopwith Camel 4 1918 2 1919 Britain 10(N) Nieuport 12 2 1917 5 1917 Britain 10(N) Nieuport 17 2 1917 5 1917 Britain 10(N) Sopwith Triplane 2 1917 7 1917 Britain 10(N) Sopwith Camel 7 1917 4 1918
from an old file saved way-back-when labeled: WW1%20aircombat/data/aircraft%20by%20squadron
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Doms Decals | 27 May 2014 2:58 p.m. PST |
Checking Les Rogers some of those dates look iffy (the end dates look like when the last airframe was struck off or returned, which was sometimes rather later than when they stopped actually using them in combat), but basically alright. In terms of actual combat employment 8 and 10 had mixed equipment for only an odd few weeks before re-equipping, while 9 actually used a mixed bag for several months as per your list, which I must confess is entirely new to me. Offhand I'm drawing a blank on RNAS Nieuport 17 photos – the RAF page for 209 has a drawing of one in PC10 overall though. Will try to remember to have a rummage in my library tomorrow, as I have a couple of decent Nieuport books somewhere
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Onomarchos | 27 May 2014 7:19 p.m. PST |
I have "A History of No.6 Squadron Royal Naval Air Service in World War I" by Westrop. It has pictures of British Nieuport Company produced 17Bis machines in PC10. Mark |
Prof Pate | 27 May 2014 11:21 p.m. PST |
Thanks TMPers I must say that my impression of Nieuports was that they arrived as being produced. Almost as if RNAS/RFC order 'x' number and the factory sent whatever they were producing. The only serious sources I have are the Ospreys (I'm new to WWI air) they say that no records of types were kept, all were classed as Nieuport scouts. Occasionally engine size is added as a descriptor. These do indicates that first purchases were 11/16 but that when replaced it was with later marks and that Sqdns finished with the 17bis. It is that elusive colour scheme I'm after. Again thanks – Hey Dom (or anyone else) swing by stand at Partizan if you're there. Onomarchos/Mark Any further markings on that Ni 17bis? Serial number, roundels (unlikely), fin marks etc. Ta John FoA |
Doms Decals | 28 May 2014 8:19 a.m. PST |
Having a quick skim I've found several photos of Nieuport 17 bis (the rounded fuselage version) in naval 6 – all are aluminium doped, with stripes or large aircraft numbers in most likely red, and blue cowlings. No fuselage roundels. (I seem to recall reading that the British built ones were very late deliveries; the aluminium doped ones were presumably French supplied.) Naval 8 Nieuports I can't find much on, beyond one photo of a Nieuport 17B (Nieuport 21 in French parlance – a flat sided Nieuport 17, but with an 80 HP engine.) Colour's debatable – could be French brown and green camo, or possibly just an overall olive drab, can't really differentiate. It has the name BINKY on the side in largeish white capitals – the same was later repeated on one of Naval 8's triplanes, so presumably the same pilot. Dom. (Likely to miss Partizan, unfortunately.) |
Camcleod | 28 May 2014 9:50 a.m. PST |
This book is a very good source: link |
Doms Decals | 28 May 2014 2:53 p.m. PST |
Yep, that's where I found those photos. :-) |
Prof Pate | 28 May 2014 3:46 p.m. PST |
Cheers Quick third look at Naval Aces WWI vol 1 shows a Ni 11 in green – is that French green, it's not PC-10? It looks like a washed out French Napoleonic Artillery green Will consult the pennies for source – appreciate the pointer. TTFN John FoA |
Doms Decals | 29 May 2014 4:17 a.m. PST |
Yeah, some of the French-built ones were delivered in a kind of olive drab – definitely a green as opposed to the browner PC10. On a few of the French-supplied British Nieuports there's disagreement as to whether they were overall green, or in the 2-colour French green and brown camo – it can be hard to differentiate depending on the type of black and white film used. |