"Former Australian PM: Israeli attack on USS Liberty wilful" Topic

47 minutes into this ABC recording (right at the end).

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The attack took place during the six day war, in international waters. Israeli reconnaissance aircraft had identified the ship in the days before the attack as the USS Liberty, according to intercepted traffic. Survivors say that the attack was made by unmarked aircraft. When the attacking aircraft ran out of bombs they machine gunned life rafts. Thirty five minutes later a second attack was made by Israeli torpedo boats. The attacks left 34 sailors dead and 173 wounded.

There is a suspicion that Israel planned to sink the USS Liberty, and blame the attack on Egypt, in order to draw the US into the war. A number of contemporary US officials, as well as the crew of the USS Liberty, believe that the attack was deliberate. Israel has mounted other false flag attacks. In 1954 Israeli agents were caught in the act preparing to blow up American and British civilian targets in Egypt (Operation Susannah). The aim was to blame local factions for these outrages and encourage Britain to keep troops at the Suez canal. Surviving agents were officially honored in 2005.

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The USS Liberty veterans association

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, and we consider them friends!

Was there any serious doubt about this?

BBC Documentary here.

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At 24.13 mention of nuclear strike on Egypt almost launched and at 26.45 how rescue flights grounded by Robert McNamara.

There was never any doubt

I'm pretty sure we knew this regardless … the Israelis who many times fight like a cornered animal. As somtimes they are, they put their countrie's saftey over their friendship with the US. They may believe most of the world turned their backs on the plight in WWII. I'm not justifying it, I'm just trying to possibly explain it … so take that for what it's worth …

Really nothing new here.

And he knows this how?

"And he knows this how?"

Did you listen to the recording?

Anti Semite sentiment is about 25% in quite a few European country's right now, so I'm pretty sure (and I'm all for Israel here) given the woeful history against the Jews of the world, the right to defend the State of Israel and its inhabitants is a right and a certainty by any means. BTW why this article now?

So an uprovoked attack on an ally is defending the Statecof Isreal, Sargon? This was never in doubt…..

And this is news? Move on, nothing new here…..

Don't you just love retired pollies and generals who only grow a pair once their out of office and they've collected all the awards and pension going!

This politician is now 85 years old and retired. He is on his way out and figures they can't do anything to him. He doesn't need to raise any more campaign finance or do something where they can pull the plug on him. He is partly Jewish himself.

The charge of "Anti-semite" has no power when it is used in cases of genuine conflict of interest. People see it is a ruse to silence critics. You can't have one group trying to hijack your national foreign policy for another countries interest (which is what the Aussie ex-PM and, recently, another Aussie ex-politician were alleging.)

What Sparker said, this PM has turned into quite the tough guy now that there's nothing for him to lose nor anything for the US/Aus to be done/gained…

But what I don't get is, to what end? Why bring this up now, almost 50 years after the incident?

V/R,
Jack

Old news.

Just Jack, couldn't agree more with what you and Sparker said. 99.999% of them wouldn't take a chance when it could have an impact on their career.

"But what I don't get is, to what end? Why bring this up now, almost 50 years after the incident?

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The title of the interview was "dangerous allies". He was asked what could potentially drag Australia into a 4th unjustified war. America and Britain came up. Then the interviewer asked him whether he agreed with Bob Carr, Australian Foreign Minister from 13 March 2012 – 18 September 2013, that the Israeli lobby had too much power in Australia. Malcolm Fraser said they certainly did and gave some examples from his time in office. Then he mentioned the US cover up over the Israeli attack on Liberty as an offhand example of pro-Israeli influence.

Please bear in mind that Malcolm Fraser is himself partly Jewish. He has no problem with Jewish influence in the media, politics, whatever. His only objection is where the Israeli lobby draws Australia into a war.

I'm really struggling to think of a war which Australia entered into as a result of any so-called Jewish Lobby in Australia. I'm used to hearing that we go to war to discharge our obligations to our biggest ally, but this is a new one on me!

Israel is also a parliamentary democracy, with an economic interest in free trade and global economic stability, so it should be no coincidence if our foreign policy coincides, not evidence of any mysterious cabal…

His only objection is where the Israeli lobby draws Australia into a war.

Israel would have to haul the continent a very long distance to draw Australia into a war.

Sparker, It wouldn't be very mysterious if you knew about it…

But seriously folks, the interviewer asked him what might lead Australia into a disastrous war and he talked about this behind-the-scenes influence citing specific instances showing it in action. I can't say more unless you listen to it and ask a particular question.

zippy, those clever Australians have ships and, steady yourself, planes these days!

Good old Aussie cunning !

I read another reason for attacking the Liberty was belief that she was generating intel that was being given to the Egyptians.

That would be an act of war.

Would it be likely that the Israelis believed this, given the number of dual citizens in the US government feeding intel back to Israel? The US couldn't stop nuclear material being smuggled to Israel. News of an intel feed to Egypt would reach Tel Aviv before you can say Pollard.

Of course it was intentional. They attacked it, right? The argument has always been the "why?"

Still intrigues me that the Liberty was way closer to the coast than it had any need to be to do the job it was doing. We made a similar eff up with the USS Pueblo a year later.

I guess the captain and crew of the Liberty thought they were safe as they were in international waters, flying a huge American flag, and having been ID's by Israeli pilots who were close enough to wave back. They couldn't have known that the Israelis were going to target the ship for a false flag operation.

The range at which they can pick up signals will vary with atmospheric conditions. Do they chase signals? They had been sailing nearer and farther to the cost in the days before the attack.

The US Ambassador to Lebanon John Gunther Dean (himself Jewish) was targeted for an assignation in 1980. He always claimed the hit came on Israeli orders as he had opened talks with the PLO. These people are ruthless. The Ambassador was dismissed as a nut case. Later it turned out that the certification of mental unfitness, which led to his dismissal, was a phony. That shows you the power these people have in Washington.

I wish someone would target me for an assignation!

An assasination? – not so much!

They do that too. But no happy ending..

Who is the blonde !?

News of an intel feed to Egypt would reach Tel Aviv before you can say Pollard.

Perhaps. And if so, what would the Izzies do about it?

The US in 1967 was not a reliable Israeli ally. In 1956 the US acted in concert with the USSR to thwart and roll back the Israeli (-Franco-British) victory in the Suez War. Did something similar in Lebanon in 1982, too. Israeli and American interests are not always aligned.

That shows you the power these people have in Washington.

Paranoid much? You should get out of Bangladesh and clear your head once in a while.

The Blonde is Bar Refaeli who got into such trouble for dressing up as Santa Claus recently (you will laugh when you look that one up). She was apparently in a film about Mossad as a female agent. This image came up in a google search. I haven't seen the film.

Zippy, I must actually get out of the country to go get some "future" (floor wax) which is what I run on. But think of the cool aid which some of these nut jobs are quaffing. They are creating anti-semitism.

David Brooks, leading columnist at the New York times:

"The Chosen getting in:

A few years ago, I wrote a book about the rise of a new educated class, the people with 60's values and 90's money who go to Starbucks, shop at Whole Foods and drive Volvos. A woman came up to me after one of my book talks and said, "You realize what you're talking about is the Jews taking over America."

My eyes bugged out, but then I realized that she was Jewish and she knew I was, too, and between us we could acknowledge there's a lot of truth in that statement. For the Jews were the vanguard of a social movement that over the course of the 20th century transformed the American university system and the nature of the American elite."

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What you say about opposition to some Israeli interests decades ago is very true. Can't see it happening now.

Israeli news web sites are very good for a frank view of past historical events that other countries wouldn't dare to print.

A few years ago, I wrote a book about the rise of a new educated class, the people with 60's values and 90's money who go to Starbucks, shop at Whole Foods and drive Volvos. A woman came up to me after one of my book talks and said, "You realize what you're talking about is the Jews taking over America."

Jews like, um, Barak Hussein Obama? Joe Biden? Hillary Clinton? Some clown recently suggested Nancy Pelosi. Bzzt, wrong!

The 'take over' came in the 1940s and 50s, when part of the obsessively hard-working Jewish Depression generation broke out of the urban ghettos and, via academic and business accomplishment, climbed to the top of the American meritocracy. That was our parents and grand-parents. The present generation is mostly coasting on the middle-class status that they achieved, and the Chinese kids are eating the Jewish kids alive academically. Harold and Kumar paint a pretty fair picture. No take-over. Assimilation and collapse is in-progress.

Israeli news web sites are very good for a frank view of past historical events that other countries wouldn't dare to print.

Israeli journalists, like journalists in other countries, like to write sensational stories that sell magazines, newspapers and internet bandwidth. There is great freedom of speech in Israel, more than in most countries, so their journalists get away with a lot. Keep your BS detector switched on.

What you say about opposition to some Israeli interests decades ago is very true.

So you agree that in 1967, smack between my two dates of 1956 and 1982, it might be possible that the US was feeding Israeli signals intelligence to the Egyptians, who we rescued in 1956 and cultivated…up to the present moment. You haven't accepted my invitation to speculate what the Israelis might have done if they had found such a thing happening, right in the middle of the biggest war they ever fought.

Can't see it happening now.

Because Israeli sympathizers control the US government? Pfft.

I will keep my BS detector on alert. What is there to suggest that the US was passing signals intelligence to Egypt? Has anything come out?

I am very much for the meritocracy. You might want to have a look at Ron Unz "The myth of American meritocracy." It is a bit depressing. It came on the heels of revelations of Elena Kagan's biased hiring at Harvard.

ronunz.org/tag/meritocracy

The Blonde is Bar Refaeli

Oh ! I like her ! But who wouldn't !

She is very pretty.

OH MY !!!!!

She is quite easy on the eyes, isn't she… L4, watch your blood pressure! Wouldn't want you to burst a blood vessel you , we haven't been able to get together to game yet!

It's not like the suspicion that the attack was deliberate is really news. It's been argued since 1967.

For that matter, even assuming that the attack was accidental, there are many serious issues. Nobody in the different Israeli branches was talking to each other. This Israeli AF never bothered to send a note to the Israeli HQ that they had eyes on the Liberty, and she had both markings on the hull (which Egyptian ships don't have) and was flying a big honking US flag. When the Big Board was updated, someone removed the Liberty's tag identifying her as an American ship, so the 3rd shift thought Liberty was Egyptian.

Ginormous fustercluck all around, as bad as the situation with the Vincennes shooting down that Iranian airliner, and which should have resulted in heads on pikes.

The Israelis have already paid out a crapton of $$ to the crew. Nearly $100 USDk per fatality and a little over $20 USDk per wounded. In 1969 dollars. In 2013 dollars (most recent year for CPI data), that's over $128 USDk per wounded and $660 USDk per fatality (more than current Servicemen's Group Life Insurance max amount). They also paid the US government for damages to the Liberty