"Who Wants to Play Custer's Last Stand? " Topic

I am going to run a convention game next week with five players playing company commanders of Custer's command and five+ players playing Plains Indian leaders. Now, I enjoy playing last stands. In the past I've run the Alamo, Camerone and Maiwand. But an unhappy 7th cavalry player during play testing last week got me thinking whether I am offering enough that's fun for the cavalry players. The game starts with all five companies dismounted on Custer Ridge and they need to hold off increasing numbers of Indians for 20 turns. The Indians are recycled but we keep track of their casualties. Historically, less than 100 Indians were killed, so it's not like fighting Zulus where the outnumbered British can claim hundreds of casualties. What I really want to avoid is giving the Custer force the hope of reinforcenent by Benteen, as I don't think that's historic. So if you were playing the cavalry, would it be enough to hold out for twenty turns, beating the historical survival time, and giving a prize to the companies who hold out the longest and who have the highest body count?

Maybe you should let them have hope that Benteen will arrive, without there actually being any chance whatsoever of it happening! After the fact you can let them in on the victory conditions.

I've played in games that were fairly tightly scripted and have not had an issue with them even though it became pretty obvious part way through that you couldn't win a military victory.

Where are you playng thes game? Sounds fun would enjoy seeng that one. Have to thn on the condeteons. Enfelade perhaps? Hope anyway.

(sorry for funny spellng my eye and cay ceys stopped worcng thes mornng)

Owen

This just happens to be my favorite form of Con game. I would run it like this. last unit to die gets 5 points 1 point for every X number of Indians killed. I would only let the players run the US troops and have a GM plus a reaction table run the Indians.

I'm also a fan of this kind of game. I've run one of these at a con, Battle of Olentangey (RevWar in the Ohio Country). All players ran American defenders, GM ran the Indians more or less on automatic. Firepower wasn't that high, but Indian moral was fragile so that one or two casualties would often send that war party fleeing off-board. But more Indians kept arriving and their numbers built up through the game. In the end, some of the players held out until dark. Good game.

Maybe you should let them have hope that Benteen will arrive, without there actually being any chance whatsoever of it happening! After the fact you can let them in on the victory conditions.

I wouldn't do this (mislead the players) to strangers at a convention. Someone might take umbrage.

What Ron and Zippy said.

Eric

It depends on how the game is built…

If all I do is pick targets and roll dice that gets boring. What decisions do I need to make? How much maneuvering will I do?

Well done a last stand can be a blast. My old club ran the Alamo and it was always a blast!

Actually, I believe Benteen had a chance to make contact with some of the Companies. But not Custer Ridge. That would be interesting. I am a keen student of the battle and recent scholarship is generally agreeing with my hypothesis.

Thanks,

John

I would also add that it's not a foregone conclusion that the indians would accept large numbers of casualties just to wipe out the command.

They fought as long as it felt right to fight. After that they stopped.

I might tell the cavalry players they can win as a group if X number of the companies survive 20 turns (because the indians were not going to stay there forever if it looked like the Cav were still in fighting form) and that there will be an overall Cav winning player based on casualties caused. So they are competing with each other but also hoping each of them survives.

I would also say that there will always be one guy who completely fails to understand the "This is a last stand" briefing.

I once had a 'player' (let's use that term, shall we?) in a Camerone game who – working his way through his six pack of cheap beer – kept shooting at maximum rate while his comrades started husbanding their rounds, then ran out of ammo about four turns before the end of the game.

Sure, the French were wiped out, but he was wiped out first, complaining, while nobody made any effort to hep him out,

I fight a lot of last stand stuff and to me the key is backing the fight off enough that the players have some say in their decisions about deployment and the overall tactical situation, then entice them to follow the historical path.

For instance when I run Isandlawana I give the British a lot of options for setup but the more they deviate the higher the Zulu breakpoint. (I don't tell them this). I do however give them a chance for some additional units back from Chlemsford's column if they setup more historically and chase down the Zulu cattle that led them over the hill to the initial confrontation.

I also do this for the Zulu side in other ways. So I openly give both the British and Zulu latitude in their setup with some enticements to do the historical options. Then based on what they choose I manipulate the victory conditions to make it a fair fight.

It takes a bit of planning but I've run it 8 times and had:

2 Zulu Overwhelming wins
1 Zulu Decisive win
1 Zulu narrow win
2 draws
1 British Narrow win
1 British Overwhleming victory

Just say "no" to gaming the Little Big Horn. There are so many other interesting engagements that never get played.

I am working on a "everyman a custer" game. We have 5 custers and they compete to see who can last the longest. The 5 players also command 5 indian tribes and try to knock off the other guys custers.

The Floozy has a point. Rosebud is a much more interesting (imho) engagement.

Maybe you should let them have hope that Benteen will arrive, without there actually being any chance whatsoever of it happening! After the fact you can let them in on the victory conditions.

I like last stands, but I'm with zippy: don't deceive your players. No one likes a bait and switch, nor do you want folks to think you're making a fool of them.

I like leidang's Isandlwana ideas. That sounds like a great way to give folks agency, but at the same time keep the historical underpinnings.

Can I have the left-behind gatlings?

What I really want to avoid is giving the Custer force the hope of reinforcenent by Benteen, as I don't think that's historic.

John Leahy's post would seem to contradict that.

John? Got some cites or a reading list for that assertion?

So if you were playing the cavalry, would it be enough to hold out for twenty turns, beating the historical survival time, and giving a prize to the companies who hold out the longest and who have the highest body count?

I'd at least want to outlast the historical survival time. Bragging rights to the longest survival, most surviving troops at the last Indian charge, and highest body count.

The "5 Custers" game sounds pretty fun, as does leidang's variations. Personally, I'd have a whole lot more Indians around if the Gatlings were available, and give them a higher morale at the start.

Guys, thanks for all the feedback. If any of you are going to be at Kublacon in the San Francisco Bay Area on Saturday you're welcome to come play in my game.

How time flies. Didn't even realize it was time for Kublacon yet. What time is your game? I likely won't be able to get in and play but I might stop by to see the shiny toys :)

Tom V.

Memorial Day Weekend is early this year so it's not a surprise it's crept up on you. Game's at 10:00. There are open slots for twelve players. I'm sure you can get a place. By the way, the game is in "Big Screen" 54mm which has meant I have to bathtub the distances. So the game starts pretty up close and personal.

John Leahy Sponsoring Member of TMP 17 May 2014 2:39 p.m. PST
Actually, I believe Benteen had a chance to make contact with some of the Companies. But not Custer Ridge. That would be interesting. I am a keen student of the battle and recent scholarship is generally agreeing with my hypothesis.

*NJH: That is very interesting. Which Companies/Troops do you think he might he have reached? If he did reach them, would they have fought their way out with Benteen? Or, would Benteen have been sucked into the last stand to die? Which naturally leads me to ask what of Reno, if Benteen loses his command at the Last Stand? This is an interesting line of thinking, very interesting gaming possibilities. This is very good John, lots of interesting variables to consider. Nicely done.

Nick, how did the game go? Any write up or pics?

I thoroughly enjoy last stands as long as I know what I'm greeting into. I love the challenge of doing as much as possible with as little as possible. II agree with one poster, just don't deceive the players, well not too much….lol.

I hope the game went well!

Cheers,
JB