snodipous | 15 May 2014 9:29 a.m. PST |
wired.com/2014/03/skyshield Has Israel been subject to MPADS attacks on airliners, or is this in anticipation of such a tactic? I have long thought that it would take one crate with 6 launchers getting loose in the US to completely shut down air travel for weeks or months. |
whitphoto | 15 May 2014 10:49 a.m. PST |
The article says it's the result of a missile fired at a commercial jet in 2002 |
Rod I Robertson | 15 May 2014 11:01 a.m. PST |
Is that legal? Can civilian aircraft be armed? Does the laser need a hard point? It is hard to tell from the photos. Interesting legal questions arise from this. Rod Robertson |
snodipous | 15 May 2014 11:26 a.m. PST |
From the article, it sounds like the laser doesn't destroy the missile, but interfere with its targeting and navigation. So, depending on the power of the laser source, it may fall into some gray area regarding whether it's a weapon or not. |
Lion in the Stars | 15 May 2014 11:53 a.m. PST |
I don't know if Israel has been dealing with MANPADS or RPG attacks on airliners, but the US sure has seen them in Iraq and Astan. As the laser is a soft-kill system intended to either dazzle the SAM's IR seeker or spoof the proximity fuse, I think it falls in the same category as chaff or flares. |
Ron W DuBray | 15 May 2014 1:15 p.m. PST |
Its a pure defensive system. Its not powerful enough to be a attack weapon or aim in a way to be able to attack targets other then incoming weapons. So they are not arming the aircraft. |
Wellspring | 16 May 2014 5:59 a.m. PST |
Based on the article, it's arguably just another kind of countermeasure. The missile attack in 2002 triggered this, and there's a rumor going around that al Qaeda recently got hold of some recent-model American Stingers (the old ones from the 80's went bad decades ago). Also, Spetsnaz has an old tactic (no idea if they still train in it), of mounting shoulder-fired missiles in terrain near an air base, set to fire automatically if it detects a plane launching/landing after a certain delay. So that would add urgency to the need for a countermeasure. It's probably a smart move, and depending on how things play out, I could see these becoming standard equipment. |
Meiczyslaw | 16 May 2014 7:04 a.m. PST |
At one point, it was claimed that 20,000 Libyan MPADS were unaccounted for, including Sa-24s. It has also been claimed that there were 400 Stingers at the Benghazi consulate. |
SouthernPhantom | 22 May 2014 5:27 p.m. PST |
Rob Robertson, Who the hell cares about that? This is a case of "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." Consider the number of passengers on most airliners and you're looking at a helluva lot more than six
try twelve hundred. |
tuscaloosa | 23 May 2014 9:46 a.m. PST |
"It has also been claimed that there were 400 Stingers at the Benghazi consulate." It has also been claimed that the Earth is flat. |
Rod I Robertson | 23 May 2014 12:39 p.m. PST |
Southern Phantom: One must consider that if you fly your "armed plane" into foreign airspace there may be consequences like being shot down or arrested and tried. And that trial might not extend you the courtesy of a jury of twelve peers. |
Lion in the Stars | 23 May 2014 1:17 p.m. PST |
@Rod: That's why the laser isn't strong enough to do more than dazzle an IR seeker or spoof a laser proximity fuse. Keeps the entire installation classified as a 'countermeasure' instead of a weapon. |
Meiczyslaw | 24 May 2014 11:21 p.m. PST |
It has also been claimed that the Earth is flat. I did a little bit of checking, and the "Stinger" label might be a journalism shorthand -- like how all weapons are "assault weapons". Apparently, the weapons that went missing were SA-7s, and originally part of that 20,000 number. That is: the story is that Stevens had managed to recover some of the missing Libyan weapons, they were in Benghazi when it was attacked, and went missing after. I haven't been able to find any information from an ironclad source, so this is still in the "possible" column, rather than the "likely". |
ITALWARS | 26 May 2014 2:10 p.m. PST |
"I don't know if Israel has been dealing with MANPADS or RPG attacks on airliners" I'm sure they did
the plot to attack a lifting El Al flight in Rome Airport was discovered during Late Seventies
and if i remenber well such an attack was more recently carried out in Nairobi Airport |
zoneofcontrol | 26 May 2014 5:12 p.m. PST |
Is that legal? Can civilian aircraft be armed? I recall a '80s photo spread in a magazine (possibly Nat. Geo.) with pictures of a civilian cruise ship bridge. Included was a anti-ship missile defense system. I remember it specifically listed "Exocet". Would that fall into similar territories with the ships visiting many different harbors in many different countries? |
Lion in the Stars | 26 May 2014 6:35 p.m. PST |
It's not "armament" if all it does is prevent a missile from hitting YOU, with absolutely no capability to harm something on the ground. I'm not sure the laser is intense enough to harm someone looking straight at it on the ground next to the bird. In the case of that cruise ship, I'm assuming that there wasn't a gun mounted on there like the CIWS or Goalkeeper. Exocet is an antiship missile, not something used to shoot incoming antiship missiles. |