myrm11 | 14 May 2014 3:52 a.m. PST |
After a reasonable amount of searching around I've settled on trying out Hammerin' Iron as an Ironclad game that's going to suit getting such games going in my local club for a number of reasons (quickish play, previous experience with PP games and their play, space and number of units in play). If it is popular then we might expand to looking at some other rules – so suggestions to look at that we could move onto using the same models or that do things differently and so have a non-overlapping set of limitations for those that don't like Hammerin' Iron would be appreciated. However the main question is – I am looking at Peter Pigs starting fleets for the game and thinking that the two fleets that come with small forts would be ideal starter fleets with a mix of ships. Is this a sensible move to go with or do the mechanics mean that alternative starter fleets would be preferable? Please bear in mind that my actual knowledge of the period is fairly limited, so I'm still trying to learn what the different vessel involved are (this all started from reading about early sub development last year) and so what makes a sensible fleet in game or history may not be obvious to me. Thanks for any advice! Tim |
Sundance | 14 May 2014 9:30 a.m. PST |
We use Under Both Flags from Bay Area Yards. They were the first ironclads rules that I played, I liked the feel of them and the way they played, and I enjoyed the game a lot. |
Allen57 | 14 May 2014 9:37 a.m. PST |
Played HI once and like it. Game is intended to be river warfare IIRC. Fleets on the rivers were not very big. Most battles I know of were one Confederate Ironclad vs a few Union cottonclads and may be a force of mortar rafts being move into postion to shell a fort. One thing I did not like was the random appearance of a submarine. The ruleset is definitely beear and pretzels but, as I said, I liked it. Most ACW Ironclad rules are way too complicated for my tastes. |
Not A Member Anymore | 14 May 2014 9:46 a.m. PST |
Hammerin' Iron has gone down well at my Club. The rules are easy to pick up even for folk who know little about the period. The Peter Pig starter packs give you a good mix of ship types and will provide an enjoyable game. Once you have a grasp of the capabilities of different ships you can add some of the quirkier vessels. Having a mix of vessels usually produces a more interesting game than just having some ironclads pounding away at each other. |
ACWBill | 15 May 2014 6:01 a.m. PST |
Try Age of Iron if you can still find a copy. They are relatively fast play and we usually finish a game in 2-3 hours. |
Aubrey | 15 May 2014 8:18 a.m. PST |
I absolutely adore Hammerin Iron. If you like other PP games you'll like this. As archdukek says they are very easy to pick up. I think you are right to chose the fleets with small forts to start with. Large forts cost a great deal of points and unless you are the defender won't get used. The fleets with medium forts both have two identical ships (my personal view but I like every ship to be different). The Virginia in the Medium fort fleet is very strong in the game and represents a significant amount of the overall points. I tend to favour having more weaker Confederate ironclads which you get in the small fleet box. Both small fleets are also a really nice mix of capabilities in the game and should give you some enjoyable games. Remember though that the PP fleets are non-historical they are designed to give a good balanced game. Another poster mentioned the inclusion of submarines. This is one of the aspects I really like. Its part of the set up phase where you try and get additional 'assets' such as submarines, torpedo boats, fire rafts or inflict a mishap on one of your opponents ships. Don't forget about the Hammerin Iron playing mat which PP also sells (I don't think its essential though as I'm sure you are able to play without by laying your ships on individual hexes). Hope this helps. |
myrm11 | 16 May 2014 6:29 a.m. PST |
Thanks for all the comments! Just dropped the order to Peter Pig for a complete startup for Hammerin Iron
. A couple more questions if I may: I grabbed one each of their off table markers and their on table markers (2 fires, 1 torpedo boat, one sub)
.am I going to need any lots of those at all or is one set enough? If I need random transports for objectives, which Peter Pig model is closest to a generic river transport for that sort of thing, or is it best to get something else for those sorts of civilian vessels/objectives. I'm hoping to just get a few small pieces to make an obvious distinction from the fighting ships? |
Aubrey | 16 May 2014 7:18 a.m. PST |
Hi, I got all my stuff before they produced the markers so haven't got either set. We write on the ships data sheets for the off-table and use various things for the on-table markers (e.g. PP used to produce a pack with torpedo boats before these came out which we use). However, from my experience I think one pack of each will be enough most of the time – I suggest you see how you get on. Re: The Transport Objectives. We use 4 Mortar Rafts (from Pack 53). I just couldn't see how you could fit 4 ships into 1 hex. Anyway the rafts look nice and fit the bill of being distinctive from the ships. You don't mention the Buildings objectives so I assume you've seen the Harbour Buildings which are obviously intended to be used for this. We also use the 12pdr guns for the army support asset and the Battle clock for the countdown. Finally, obviously it depends how much you are able / willing to spend but one thing that really adds to the look of the game IMO is the Farm, City Block and Wharf. They are purely decorative but look really nice. Cheers. |
myrm11 | 16 May 2014 8:14 a.m. PST |
I grabbed rules, two starter fleets, mat, clock (which I was going to get for PBI as well so I got the general one rather than the specific one for HI), the markers and some more piggy dice because I noticed I had spent enough to lose postage and I had budgeted for that. Looks like I'll probably get the Rafts for the sea Objective and I was toying with the land pieces (was going to read the rules and pick them up once I could see how much of them I need). Are all three (Farm, City block, wharf) necessary, or are they useful to differentiate different objectives or do multiple options fall into the 'variety is the spice of life' category? I have variety of guns from other games to mark assets like that though Cheers Tim |
Aubrey | 16 May 2014 9:07 a.m. PST |
myrm11, Sounds good. I had a look at the rules since posting and they actually have a photo of 4 ships in the same hex for the sea objective (so it can be done – I base my ships though so it might be too much of a squeeze). The mortar rafts however do look nice and stand out from the ships which is one thing you mentioned you wanted. The rules do suggest them as an option. One pack of mortar rafts also does the job (which saves splashing out on 4 additional ships). You DO NOT NEED the Farm, City Block or Wharf (although they can be handy to weight down the corners of the mat sometimes if it curls a bit!) to play the game at all. They are entirely decorative and serve no function in the game itself. They just look nice. You DO NEED Building Objectives to play the game and one pack of Harbour Buildings fulfils this. There are a few other things you need to mark (fire rafts is the thing that springs to mind) but like with the army guns they can easily be improvised (we use a smoke marker on its own for a fire raft). Hope this helps but if you have any other questions happy to answer them. Cheers |
myrm11 | 17 May 2014 2:41 p.m. PST |
Ok thanks
looks like I will need some buildings and rafts then
. |
myrm11 | 23 May 2014 2:37 a.m. PST |
Well the HI stuff is turning up (first two orders anyway) – after ordering everything realised I forgot to order the extra reference sheets I planned on. SO first reading through the rules and its looking good – much better written than the PBI one. However I have a couple of questions so far if anyone can answer them 1) The cards selected orders for each ship – does the use of selected mean you pick them from the pack or are they supposed to be drawn from a random shuffled stack 2) Forts and line of sight – there are specific statement allowing forts to fire off and over any part of their island, but island hexes are said to block LoS for ships quite clearly. Does this mean that there is an intent to set up (as it seems to me) an asymmetric LoS where a fort can aim and shoot over a hex on its island at a ship that is then unable to fire back? Cheers all – there will undoubtedly be more as I read further and try my first game or two. |
StoneMtnMinis | 25 May 2014 8:35 a.m. PST |
Age of Iron is still available from Stone Mountain Miniatures. Dave link |
Aubrey | 02 Jun 2014 3:43 a.m. PST |
myrm11, Sorry for the delay in replying (not been about). In answer to your questions. 1) Randomly take your 5 cards for each ship from one of the stacks. Then you can look at what you've picked and each turn select which card to play for each ship. 2) Not entirely sure I fully follow you're question. But forts are raised up on an island so not effected by normal island LOS. If in arc they can fire at who they like (and by implication be fired back at). Island LOS is more about stopping ships (at river level) firing across an island at a ship on the other side of the island. Anyway that has always been my reading of the rules and seems to be common sense. Have fun with HI2. |
myrm11 | 04 Jun 2014 3:31 a.m. PST |
Thanks! The island question was simply with the large fort and its island, or a regular island placed next to the base shoreline – I could see a situation (based on how I was reading the rules first up) where hexes of the island were stated to block a ship shooting through the hex (and hence to the fort), but the fort appeared to be able to shoot over those hexes (because the relevant rule section only mentioned forts firing that I could see). I just wanted to see if that was intentional in the way it was written, or just slightly iffy writing, or if I had missed a rule bit of to one side (PBI gave me examples of all those options as I learnt to play it). Both you and the RFCM group have given the same reply and it was the one that I would have gone with but I wanted to check and no can feel confident! Painting stuff is my personal nightmare, but I've got the tokens, mines, subs and torpedo boats done, the buildings just need a wash and varnish. Then its onto the ships and forts
.Im mildly panicking that I might get them mixed up as I paint them because if I mis-name them I simply wouldn't know
.lotsa labels! |