Frank Wang | 13 May 2014 8:58 p.m. PST |
Hi, everyone! My name is Frank. I am a Chinese Manufacturer located in China. I've just started my miniature career about half a year ago. I designed wargame rules called "To Arms!".Here is photo of me and my rulesbooks.
"To Arms!" is a fast rule which could let gamers enjoy the battle and finish one single game within 90 mins. It suits the beginners(most of people in China don't play miniature wargame so i designed this to help them join in).Player don't need to calculate or roll too much and the main feature of it is, you can use it to play any game from ancient to 1900AD.(see what gonna happen if Napoleon met Ceasar)
So far it's a Chinese book any we are perfecting it.Of course I'll translate it into English when it's ready. Ok,here's my minis and this is why I'm seeking retailers.
15mm Anglo-Saxon Fyrd. I tried to manufacture the first 15mms with these guys. I planned to make "Battle of Hastings", include Norman and Vikings. 1 Box of Fyrd contains 65 men and 4 2"x2" wooden bases(used in "To Arms!" rules).
The price I charge in China is 198 CNY per box, about 32 USD. The average price for 1 man is about 0.5 USD. and the following are some sculpts of fyrd. So you can see I'm are not doing recast or copy any other brands.
I painted some of them. Don't laugh, I know I'm not a good painter.
Now my productivity is about 10000 per day. In 2 weeks I can sculpt 8-10 poses and manufacture them. I have the intention of making all the range but so far the "Battle of Hastings" is on schedule. It seem that you all want some Chinese related miniatures such like Qin Dynasty,3 kingdoms or The Eight Route Army guerrillas,surely I'll think over that. So, if you are a retailer, if you are interested in, no matter where you are, contact me! E-mail:18913989188@qq.com Thank you for reading! |
gavandjosh02 | 13 May 2014 10:24 p.m. PST |
Hi. Not a retailer and I'm a 25/28mm player – but just wanted to say good luck with your venture. |
Zargon | 13 May 2014 10:40 p.m. PST |
Yes, I as a gamer like them , good luck in your venture Frank, to the guys in the business, these look like a solid adventurer, here's hoping for a joint venture between Frank and others (he did mention the Qun and 3 dynasties too ;) ' I do like his sculpture style and bet they paint up a treat. Frank, one question when will you have either a blog/website or Facebook page up so we can see the progress of your project? and what would your postal charges worldwide be for all of us outside China. Anyway very good luck nice to see the Hobby make great inroads to the Great Civilization. Cheers and happy gaming. |
napthyme | 13 May 2014 11:56 p.m. PST |
Hi Frank
As a retailer and a fellow 15mm manufacturer I see your making a usual mistake that I find with companies from your side of the world. Since you do not have any US based companies to learn the business model here from you automatically have set yourself up to fail in the rest of the world. US retailer margins from the Distributor is 35-48% of the retail, for Distributors it is 55-66% of the retail. By setting your retail price at 50 cents per figure you have eliminated any chance of a retailer or distributor carrying your products. Neither of the types of business's will want to pay the shipping to receive them from China. I would be happy to help you further with your numbers so that you have a chance here in the US market. |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 2:51 a.m. PST |
@Zargon: Im working on the website and about the the shipment fee, arou nd 20 usd i think |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 2:52 a.m. PST |
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Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 3:14 a.m. PST |
@napthyme: thank you for your advice. maybe there is some misunderstanding. so, the price: 1.I sell a box of them not a single one. 2.the price 32USD is charged only in China. usually the 15mm is about 70cent per figure. a little cheaper i think it's a advantage 3.base on 2, i offer a better price to the retailers than other manufacturers 4.the most important:"everything is negotiable" i'd like to have a chat on e mail with you, and i'd like to hear more about US retailing business. |
rvandusen | 14 May 2014 3:24 a.m. PST |
The figures and rule book look very nice. Well done. |
Badgers | 14 May 2014 5:19 a.m. PST |
Looks good, best of luck. |
Skeptic | 14 May 2014 5:20 a.m. PST |
It's good to see miniature gaming begin to take hold in China! About your rulebook, are the photographs inside all yours? If not, you may want to check with the copyright owners. |
OSchmidt | 14 May 2014 5:22 a.m. PST |
Good luck but remember what one major war gaming figure said. "If you want to make a small fortune in war games, start with a large fortune." Unless this is a labor of love for you (as it is with most manufacturers in the mini's world) you will not make any money in this. |
Only Warlock | 14 May 2014 5:25 a.m. PST |
Outstanding! I may be over in Beijing next month. Where in China are you located? |
wminsing | 14 May 2014 5:31 a.m. PST |
I can't offer any business advice but nice looking models and best of luck! -Will |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 5:49 a.m. PST |
@Skeptic: some of them are mine,the rest are came from google. but don't worry its just for a print test.before it's published i will replace the pics. thank you for mention that! |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 5:55 a.m. PST |
@OSchmidt:
"If you want to make a small fortune in war games, start with a large fortune." indeed. luckily the fortune you need to start in china is not as large as it in US |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 5:58 a.m. PST |
@Only Warlock: Nanjing, you gonna come? 4 hours train distance. e-mail me if you come |
Stealth1000 | 14 May 2014 6:31 a.m. PST |
Looking good Frank. I really hope you do well. It would be great to see the wargames hobby spread through your country. I could see a lot of UK and US manufactures being very happy if you could make wargames a well known hobby over there. |
Garand | 14 May 2014 6:33 a.m. PST |
Hi Frank, Since this is a print test, I want to point out that on the cover, the priest in the front with the red had has his cross upside down. This may be bothersome to some people. Like the style of the cover however! Otherwise very curious to see how this goes, especially with a developing wargaming scene in China! Damon. |
Soldat | 14 May 2014 6:36 a.m. PST |
Frank, The figures look nice. Good luck with your venture. I would suggest you have someone in the US manufacture figs here for distribution in order to reduce your shipping costs to the consumer. Are you staying with 15mm or will you venture into 28mm? |
Rdfraf | 14 May 2014 6:48 a.m. PST |
These look good! I look forward to seeing them distributed here in the US! |
JezEger | 14 May 2014 6:56 a.m. PST |
Hi frank, one thing to mention is your rule book. Make sure a native speaker gets to proof read it before you go to print. I've seen many books that lose much of their value due to a few misused words. You speak very good English judging by your replies, but, as a teacher of English as a second language, I can assure the nuances of some words are hard to understand to a non native speaker. This can result in a lack of clarity or even the occassional comic result. Then again, Phil Barker never got that concept, so I could be wrong! |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 7:07 a.m. PST |
@Garand: yeah see that,looks like some Anti-Christ thing. i don't think the illustrator means it, anyway, i will change the cover. thank you! |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 7:13 a.m. PST |
@Soldat: i have sculptor and workshop, 15mm or 28mm, that's no problem for me. I can make new products in 2 weeks or even less if i want. now i just planning some 15mm that could use in my rules. thank you! |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 7:19 a.m. PST |
@JezEger: thank you,and eh..i been not use my English for a long time, so, still practicing. grammar is my headache. |
Only Warlock | 14 May 2014 7:30 a.m. PST |
@To Arms, I'll let you know if I do. If I take the job I will be in Beijing roughly 6 months before returning to the US. |
Pedrobear | 14 May 2014 8:49 a.m. PST |
To Arms, I think your English is fine – in fact, if I just looked at the photos you posted without reading your post, I would think it was a Chinese translation of an English-language rule set! :D The resolution in the photos is only good enough for me to make out the sub-headings, but the language seems rather
technical. If I may be so bold
perhaps a less technical phrasing may make it easier for the novice readers? For example, instead of writing "Determining Initiative", perhaps the heading can be "Who goes first?" instead? Now my Chinese is not good enough for me to translate from English to Chinese (in fact, I can't even write it anymore, although I can still read), but if you don't mind an extra pair of eyes, I would be glad to help with the translation. |
Zargon | 14 May 2014 9:00 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the info Frank, please do update us all on your progress, I really like your figure modeling style as it would be a good idea for you to show a comparison of your figures next to 2 or 3 other manufactures just as a judgment to their scale 15mm (lots of us mix and match manufactures so don't feel offended as we feel there is always space for more great figures and manufactures out there) BTW the parent company and manufactures of Wargames Factory is China bases and they bring out wonderful products. Lot of good luck. PS being in China, the sooner you do all the Chinese armies of history, I think you will have a lot of interest from the rest of the worlds gamers too (seeing as you do have I'm sure a lot of info there on these armies like the 3 kingdoms. |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 9:08 a.m. PST |
@Pedrobear: Okey
I referred to some other rulesbooks, yes,i admit that.they seem similar in some way, like move methods, phases.but i did't simply just copy. I tried to make it easier but they became more and more complex while i'm working on it. |
Bobgnar | 14 May 2014 11:26 a.m. PST |
Hi, You're off to a good start. I just have a couple of suggestions gleaned from 50 years of playing wargames , buying figures, reading rules, Selling figures, editing a magazine, writing articles, etc. Make smaller packages. Don't sell your figures only based on your rules. Get people to buy the figures to play with the rules that they have already. You will make more money selling figures, rather than just selling the rules. I would love to buy a few of your figures but I don't want 65 at a time. Consider selling painted figures. It seems that labor costs in China for the mass production of painted figures is less than that in the western primary gaming world. Don't try to sell your rules based on the fact that they cover all of history. Gamers are criticized for just having Romans fight Chinese, let alone seeing what is going to happen if Napoleon met Caesar. Stage a battle with your rules and your figures, and submit it to one of the major gaming magazines, miniature wargames or wargames illustrated. Include lots of detail and pictures of the figures in action, place an ad in the magazine. Make arrangements with a gamer in Australia, eastern United States, United Kingdom to put on a game using your figures and rules at a national convention. For example have someone do a game at Historicon in u.s. or salute (that might may be past but is there another big convention coming up?) in England. It's great to see that someone is becoming a pioneer for the hobby in Asia in particular China. It's also very refreshing to see somebody starting up on his own, like has been done in the past, without a kickstart to lead the way. I wish you all the success in the world. Keep us all posted on how things go. PS, I think people would like to see your figures. If it's not too complicated come up with a way for people to request a few samples 3–5, for the price of postage. Can you take PayPal there? |
wrgmr1 | 14 May 2014 12:35 p.m. PST |
Hi Frank, Nice looking rule set and figures. As suggested look for a manufacturer/distributor in the U.S. or U.K. Shipping from China will be costly, effecting pricing. Package figures 6 or 8 per box. Command in 3 or 4. Sell your rules with one or two sample figures. Best of luck! |
Zephyr1 | 14 May 2014 2:43 p.m. PST |
I like that rulebook cover. Reminds me of some Italian Renaissance paintings. Best wishes to your success! |
Pedrobear | 14 May 2014 8:02 p.m. PST |
TO arms, Don't get me wrong, I didn't imply that you copied the rules, just that the language you used may be hard for first-time wargamers to understand. |
(Leftee) | 14 May 2014 8:09 p.m. PST |
This reminds me of the promise and newness (for me) of gaming in the 70's in Britain. Hope you can bring all that excitement and pleasure to your fellow countrymen! Best of luck and fortune! A true pioneer -you could be the next Jack Scruby/Don Featherstone! |
napthyme | 14 May 2014 8:20 p.m. PST |
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Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 8:36 p.m. PST |
@Bobgnar: thank you very much! you advice help me a lot. Yes, I should pack less in a box like many other brands did. |
Frank Wang | 14 May 2014 8:41 p.m. PST |
@Pedrobear: Yes i know. Chinese pirate almost everything in the world so when i said i wrote a rule even other chinese asked me "copy from what?" i think i need make a clear. and, now im working on a "quick start",use easier understood words. glad to see some foreigner know chinese! |
Early morning writer | 14 May 2014 8:58 p.m. PST |
Frank, while I agree with Bobgnar about packaging in smaller sizes (though you can keep the large size as an option) I disagree with him about having broad time frame rules. While I understand, to a degree, why many gamers like 'defined period' rules, there is a movement in the other direction. I'm starting to see more and more rules covering a broad time period of history. One of the biggest challenges I see in this hobby is way, way, WAY too many rulesets. The hobby begins cannabilized (small groups with focused interests) before we even get to rules. Now even the largest 'common' interest gamers are divided and sub-divided into ever smaller groups based on rules (and figure size, for that matter). So, don't be afraid to stay with the broad stroke of time with the rules. But do focus on the miniatures over the rules, better for longer time profit. And, if I may, do give serious thought about base cost as it relates to final price paid by the end consumer. Many 15 mm manufacturers are already pushing, hard, on the willing limit of price point for the man who buys the figures to paint and play. Best of luck in your ventures. |
Henry Martini | 14 May 2014 10:46 p.m. PST |
Balkanised(cannibalised)? |
Frank Wang | 15 May 2014 12:08 a.m. PST |
@Early morning writer: thank you very much! |
The Virtual Armchair General | 15 May 2014 12:08 p.m. PST |
The very best of good fortune to you, Sir! You clearly are a well organized thinker, and have the special wisdom to see the experience and advice of others. However, ignore all the negative words, but take that advice which makes the most sense and still allows you to fine tune your developing business model. In that vein, I hope you will consider selling smaller sets of figures in addition to those you first propose, and offer your bases separately. Most gamers, I believe, would prefer to add your figures to their existing collections and base them according to their preferred rules. Western customers may or may not buy your rules and use its basing system, but your figures will sell based on their own merits far more widely (at least, initially). I greatly support your idea of offering your sculpts in direct relation to historical battles, as evidenced by your "Battle of Hastings" idea. Having ALL the historical troop types, in multiple poses, for that battle is an ideal way to serve existing Dark Ages war gamers and at the same time make it easy for new comers to the hobby to buy at once everything they need to start in a well defined way. If your circumstances could allow for pre-painted sets to be offered (at a suitably higher price, of course), so much the better for recruiting new hobbyists world wide. As one more idea to consider, you must already appreciate that you are peculiarly well situated to research historical resources both for figure and rule designs. This is a strength simply not available to the vast majority of Western sculptors and game designers, and one you would do well to exploit. Consequently, perhaps you could look into designing figures from Chinese History, say from the era of The Warring Kingdoms, through the various Dynasties, The Tai-P'ing and other rebellions against the Manchu/Qing perhaps up to the end of the 19th Century. The amazing military details learned of the Emperor Chin's armies around his tomb alone would make an amazing range of miniatures, particularly in 15mm. You might even be able to write a single set of rules, though with many different "chapters" allowing for the tactical and operational changes over the centuries, to allow players to buy the particular period armies they prefer and still play with one basic set of well researched rules. Call them something like "The Art of War", or even just "Sun-Tzu," and you've got an immediate world wide potential audience for those interested in Chinese History, but have never had a truly authentic choice of figures and rules from a Chinese perspective. As another maker of toy soldiers (though personally without your skills!), I wish you the very best. TVAG |
Rdfraf | 15 May 2014 12:47 p.m. PST |
Being Chinese-American I would love to see more Chinese subjects covered but please keep in mind just because a few people tell you that you ought to make such and such range doesn't mean you should. A few vocal people with an opinion does not translate into sales. Yo need to research your market. I think your figures look great and I love the single battle idea. Unlike some I prefer the large bag of figures for sale. I'm looking forward to seeing more good things from you. I'm ready to buy whenever you are ready to sell. |
Ironwolf | 16 May 2014 3:39 a.m. PST |
Frank (To Arms) I hope you become a regular member on here and keep us updated on your rules and miniatures. I do not play the period you are working on but it has been very interesting to read your progress. Don't worry about your English, so far you are doing better than me and English is my first language. hahahaa |
Tumbleweed | 16 May 2014 9:57 p.m. PST |
Your figures are very nice and I would encourage you to get into the various Chinese dynasties. We produce a number of 15mm Han and Tang Chinese figures and it is our belief that competition is a good thing because it makes everyone work harder, greatly improving quality and choices for everyone.
thevikingforge.net |
Frank Wang | 17 May 2014 2:41 a.m. PST |
@Ironwolf: i already paid and waiting for the editor to upgarde |
Frank Wang | 17 May 2014 2:43 a.m. PST |
@Tumbleweed: i saw the fantasy minis on your website and they looks really great! |
Xantipos | 19 May 2014 12:39 p.m. PST |
Best of luck with your enterprise :) . I know how hard it can be :P . I specially admire your prototypes, it is very hard to sculpt at such a small scale. Personally, I only collect 25 mm figurines, so I am afraid this figures aren't my piece of cake. But if you make any figures in 25 mm (equivalent 1/72), let me know, and I'll buy you a few! Personally, I like subjects not covered before. The AngloSaxons doesn't thrill me very much, but the Tang look very interesting. |
Valator | 19 May 2014 8:40 p.m. PST |
10,000 per day? That is significant. Have you had much luck marketing your product locally? Honestly, Frank, the real miniatures gaming growth sector is the one you occupy. It also has historical eras that have been least well served by manufacturers. |
ridgeback123 | 23 May 2014 7:08 a.m. PST |
Hi Frank As the owner oh Shell Hole & Co owner of the 20mmZone here in the U/K I would be happy to talk with about a deal. I also offer a mould making & casting service & licencing arrangement may be the way to go to save shipping & import charges? If interested drop me a P.M Ian |
Dave Knight | 04 Jun 2014 8:18 a.m. PST |
Good luck with the venture If would be fantastic if wargaming took off in even a realiavely small way in China You would go down a storm somewhere like Salute |
Claypole | 04 Jun 2014 4:25 p.m. PST |
Just a quick post – ordered and received from Frank within 8 days to the UK. A couple of pictures with some FOW British and a 4 Ground house for scale:
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