Redcoat 55 | 24 Apr 2014 1:33 p.m. PST |
If I understand correctly most Loyalist regiments did not have the lace heavy drummers' coats worn in British regiments. During the green coated phases I would assume the general rule would have been to put drummers in coats the color of the regiment's facing color. In the British army blue faced regiments did not put drummers in inverse facing/coat colors, but they had lace on the sleeves to make them stand out. I would assume that during the green coat phases of most blue faced Loyalist regiments they would not put their drummers in blue coats? Without lace they would look just like the other men that way. Does anyone have more information on this topic? |
Major Bloodnok | 24 Apr 2014 3:32 p.m. PST |
British Army drummers all wore laced coats. 19th December 1768. Miscellany Book: clothing correspondence. His Majesty's Warrant for the regulation of the Colours, Clothing, etc. of the Marching Regiments of Foot. W.O. 30/13B "The coats of the Drummers and Fifers of all the Royal Regiments are to be red, faced and lappelled with blue, and laced with royal lace. The waistcoats, breeches, and lining of the coats to be the same colour as that which is ordered for their respective Regiments. The coats of the Drummers and Fifers of those Regiments which are faced with red, are to be white, faced, lappelled, and lined with red; red waistcoats and breeches. Those of all the others, are to be of the same colour as that which is ordered for the men. To be laced in such manner as the Colonel shall see fit. The lace to be of the colour of that on the soldiers coats" From records dated 12th September 1776 "5,000 uniform suits including Serjeants and two Drums to every 100. The coats green, lined with white baize, waistcoats and breeches white and white buttons. Cloth and making the same as for the Army nad not better." As from the above facings are not mentioned, and drummers coats are to be green. No reversed colours mentioned. |
John the OFM | 24 Apr 2014 5:33 p.m. PST |
"As the Colonel shall decide." Being green coated has already taken them past the 1768 Warrant. If the Colonel of a Loyalist regiment wants to make them look "smart", he will reverse colors. If he wants to save money, he will give them the same coat as the hatmen. |
Redcoat 55 | 19 May 2014 1:11 p.m. PST |
It leads to the question of why are the sergeants' and drummers' coats being called out? In the British army sergeants received scarlet coats instead of madder red and white lace instead of the regimental pattern. As one must assume these coats had no lace, it makes one wonder. |
Supercilius Maximus | 20 May 2014 8:19 a.m. PST |
The quote says "Drums" rather than "Drummers" – supplying two drums per company of 100 men was about the right ratio. Sergeants' coats were made of better quality cloth, and had an epaulette (given the reference to "suits" this may also have included the sash, and possibly even the silver lace for the hat). Drummer's coats were either of a different colour, or would have been laced in some way (at the very least the "wings" on the shoulders). However, it was not unknown for drummers' coat to be made slightly smaller, even though the "drummer boy" was as much a myth as a reality in most regiments. |
huron725 | 20 May 2014 9:08 a.m. PST |
So going off on a tangent if some sergeants hat lace was silver were all Officers hat lace gold? |
Redcoat 55 | 20 May 2014 5:43 p.m. PST |
No Huron, the Royal Warrant dictated officer's metal. For example the 55th Foot had gold, so the officers of the 55th were supposed to have gold buttons, gold lace, gold hat trim, a gold epaulette, and a gold gorget., |
Redcoat 55 | 20 May 2014 5:55 p.m. PST |
and a regiment assigned officer's metal silver would have all those items in silver. Supercilious Maximus, During its green coated and blue faced period, what do you think the Prince of Wales Regiment put its musicians in? Sorry for the typos and split message, I can't seem to edit posts to this page with my phone. The cursor won't always go where I want it to go. |
Supercilius Maximus | 20 May 2014 11:40 p.m. PST |
Re. the PoW Regt's musicians – I honestly have no idea and can only offer an educated(?!) guess at the same coat as a private but with more lace to make them stand out. Also, bear in mind that they may not have worn anything this elaborate in the field – eg many officers (Regular and Loyalist) had privates' coats made up for themselves so as to be less conspicuous, but also to save their expensive regimentals from wear and tear. Just to be clear on lace – ALL sergeants wore silver; officers wore either gold or silver according to regimental style. |
Major Bloodnok | 21 May 2014 2:39 a.m. PST |
The 1768 Warrant says serg'ts are to wear white braid. |
Supercilius Maximus | 21 May 2014 3:17 a.m. PST |
That;s their buttonhole lace. I was referring to hat lace in the previous post. |
Redcoat 55 | 21 May 2014 10:27 a.m. PST |
Thank you for the opinion Supercilius Maximus. Do you know the underlying reason it was decided not to put British drummers of the royal regiments in blue coats? It seemed to me that given blue coats were not used for British musicians in Royal regiments that Loyalists would not use blue for musician coats even in green coated regiments. Nevertheless without knowing the underlying reason for the policy in regard to the regular line troops it is hard to be certain of how green coated blue faced auxiliary Loyalist regiments would address the issue. |
Supercilius Maximus | 22 May 2014 4:22 a.m. PST |
Prior to 1714, the only truly "royal" regiments were the Foot Guards; although there was the odd regiment that had a (usually non-British) royal colonel, they tended to keep their own colours and livery. I suspect it was the Hanoverian monarchs who decided to adopt European dress rules (coats of the same colour as the private soldiers and royal livery lace) for the Foot Guards and then extended it as more and more regiments were adopted by members of the Royal Family. |
Redcoat 55 | 22 May 2014 6:10 a.m. PST |
Thank you Supercilius Maximus! |