D for Dubious | 23 Apr 2014 8:43 a.m. PST |
During the Blitzkrieg period you usually hear that the Germans had much better Command and Control which offset the limitations of their equipment – especially in terms of tanks. My question is how did that actually work down at the platoon level? Did each tank platoon have a designed commander and was radio communication good enough for that commander to direct his vehicles on the go? Or was it a separate dedicated command vehicle? |
Rich Bliss | 23 Apr 2014 9:03 a.m. PST |
I suspect that this comment is due to the omnipresent radios in almost all tanks and training to use them in action. That's certainly enough to give a significant advantage over French and Russia formations in the early statues of the war. |
Mserafin | 23 Apr 2014 9:04 a.m. PST |
Thanks to Guderian, who was a signals officer in WW1, all German tanks had radios, unlike everyone else's. This meant company commanders could talk to platoon commanders, who could talk to individual tanks. I'm not sure the tanks of non-commanders had 2-way sets, so I'm not sure they could talk back. I'm sure someone more knowedgable will be along presently to give you more information than you ever dreamed possible. |
Rrobbyrobot | 23 Apr 2014 9:09 a.m. PST |
German Panzer Platoons were led by junior officers in tanks equipped as per the rest of their platoon. While all tanks had two way radios of good quality. It was even more important that these units had proper training. These two factors acted as an extreme force multiplier. Tanks with special radio equipment were reserved for higher level commanders. Company, battalion and regimental level. Hope this helps. |
emckinney | 23 Apr 2014 9:42 a.m. PST |
"all German tanks had radios, unlike everyone else's" Did the Mk. I Cruiser (A9) have a radio? If so, I think that the handful of Matilda I were the only British tanks without radios, and those went by the wayside during the Battle of France. |
Gary Kennedy | 23 Apr 2014 10:38 a.m. PST |
It's never wise to post anything on Panzers without looking up first, but the comment on all Panzers having radios reminded me of something I'd seen. Charles Sharp did a slim volume in the Nafziger series, titled German Panzer tactics in WW2. There's a page on communications, in which he states; "One thing that is not appreciated in many histories of the war is that German tanks until 1942 did not all have radio transmitters mounted. In units equipped with the PzI and PzII light tanks, only the platoon and company commanders had transmitters, and up until 1942 even many of the PzIIIs not assigned to section, platoon or company commanders were fitted only with receivers
"The flexibility of having transmitters in all vehicles was too great to be ignored, and after the end of 1942 virtually all German armo(u)red vehicles had both radio receivers and transmitters." So for the Blitz years radios were restricted issue, not standard it seems. The fuzzy memory of that mix of receiver only tanks and receiver/transmitter feels a bit less dubious now. Hand signals or signal flags were also employed (no doubt the guide to that is on the web these days, I first saw it in a comic!). He also includes a snippet on 'lessons learned' from the 1939 campaign that makes Panzer communication seem a little less slick than sometimes portrayed; "The current complicated models of radios for communication between the tank regiment and battalion are not very useful. The regimental commander must be able to speak directly to the commander of the battalion. At present, inside the noisy tank, the (regtl)commander must shout to make himself understood to the (regtl) signal officer, the (regtl) signal officer transmits the orders by radio to the battalion signal officer, then the battalion signal officer must shout the orders to the battalion commander." So, lots of shouting, but it was only 1939 after all
And yes, British cruiser and light tanks were all slated to have wireless sets. Gary |
Gaz0045 | 23 Apr 2014 10:56 a.m. PST |
Their C3 in Poland wasn't as 'slick' as it was in West months later -lessons learned etc, German training at the junior leader level was superior to most of their opponents at the same level – with an emphasis on initiative and aggressive tactics
.I recall reading that 'some' (older?) Panzers had limited receiver-only radios but it is a vague recollection! |
Rrobbyrobot | 23 Apr 2014 11:30 a.m. PST |
It is worth noting that while I served on tanks during the '70s and '80s we carried flag sets on our tanks. We also were trained in the use of hand and arm signals. It's not that we didn't all have radios on our tanks. But radios are subject to jamming. And they have been known to malfunction. Plus, if you stay off the air the enemy can't possibly hear what you're up to on the air. |
emckinney | 23 Apr 2014 1:14 p.m. PST |
OK, just confirmed that the Matilda I has a radio in the rear hull. The TC had to lie on his belly with his feet in the small of the driver's back to fiddle with it! YouTube link |
D for Dubious | 24 Apr 2014 2:22 a.m. PST |
That's all interesting and when I think about it there is a reference in one of my books to the later M3 Lee about a platoon commander having a two way radio but the rest of the tanks having a receive only set. So would it be reasonable to say that each German tank platoon has one command tank capable of issuing orders to the rest? |
Gaz0045 | 24 Apr 2014 6:17 a.m. PST |
The platoon leader 'would' (in ideal circumstances) have a tx/rx unit
..some of the accounts tell of much swapping of vehicles as they became unserviceable etc to keep the leader in touch/mounted with the unit
.I recall one company commander who used a Kubelwagon with radio to command from
..similarly a Brit CO who commanded from his open top tourer car for better visibility and awareness
..in North Africa. |
Russell120120 | 24 Apr 2014 5:40 p.m. PST |
Interesting Some details are here on the gear. Note that it makes the same note (below the first chart) that most early tanks did not have the transmitter. link |
Martin Rapier | 24 Apr 2014 11:18 p.m. PST |
Yes, many had rx only sets, Jentz list the authorised equipment in Panzertruppen. Rather than minor tactics, radio command was perhaps more significant at formation level, coupled with mission directed tactics and a common tactical doctrine which did not require detailed orders. |
Martin Rapier | 25 Apr 2014 2:00 a.m. PST |
Sorry meant to add, the primary tactical unit was the Panzer Kompanie, so as long as the Regt and Bn COs could communicate with their companies the internal company two way comms were less was less important. Jentz goes into all this stuff. |
donlowry | 25 Apr 2014 9:19 a.m. PST |
Also important was the fact that in the Pz III and subsequent models, the tank commander did not have to double as loader, gunner, etc., leaving him free to spot targets and think about tactics, etc. Not true in French and Russian tanks (until late in the war). |
donlowry | 26 Apr 2014 10:06 a.m. PST |
So what is the penalty for no effective comms? |