"Looking for mass battle rules" Topic

I am looking for mass battle rules that uses stands, but not a set number for a unit.

Warmaster and others use 3 or 4 stands per unit PERIOD.

What I would love is something along the lines of Fire and Fury (ACW game), where a unit can be almost any size, but makes morale checks at certain number of losses depending on its class.

What I want is to be able to have some units that are massive hordes, but can break easily, while some units are smaller, but tougher and more disciplined.

Are there any rules like that, or do I need to modify some rules?

Here's some bat reps using Rally Round the King.

talomir.blogspot.com

Kings of War sounds somewhat like what you're looking for.
Each unit is a single stand (e.g., 100mm x 80mm for a typical human infantry unit or 100mm x 40mm for a half-size (cut the depth)).

Individual models are not removed as casualties mount. Instead you can use wound markers, casualty caps, whatever you like. Morale is then tested using the current # of casualties as a modifier. There are two states of morale when badly affected. The first disrupts the unit for a single turn and then it may act normally again next turn. The second morale stage is simply destroyed, reflecting too many casualties/other morale impacts.

The rules and the army lists are available for free and cover most Warhammer/standard fantasy races. First link is the rulebook and the second link is to the rulebook and full army lists:

PDF link

link

The hardback rules contain a magic item list (2 pages) and some siege and campaign rules. Otherwise, the PDF link above has the rules you will use for probably 95% of your battles.

MAYHEM

Mighty Armies by Rebel Miniatures.

I'm trying to remember how Chipco's Fantasy Rules! worked regarding troop stands. No access to my copy at the moment.
I seem to remember it being quite versatile.

I second Privateers suggestion as Kings of War ticks the right boxes for you.

2nd Ed. BattleSystems had those unit features: no max. size; morale was for the entire unit (whatever its size), so most players avoid massive sized units as the whole will break if they suffer a bad morale check.

For horde type creatures (Goblins, Orcs, etc.), the units can/should be made larger, which means the entire unit will flee, if they route -- makes them a bigger gamble on the table, more all-or-nothing in morale checks.

If you are interested in playing rules loosely close to 1st/2nd Ed. AD&D, then look for a used copy on e-Bay (was, but is not currently, available from RPGNow.com, for PDF download -- hope they offer it again). 2nd Ed. BS rules are not a mass-battle version of AD&D, but a mass battle AD&D-like flavor. It is also a bucket-O-dice game, with one Attack Die being rolled for each figure able to attack. There are also Armor Checks, for successful Hits, which acts as a Saving Throw for combat, bouncing Hits scored if the Armor Check is successful. Cheers!

I'm with Ed and Terrement on RRTK. Stands combine to make bodies and besides that it's a great
system esp for solo or same-sided games. And a bigger bonus is if you have any questions on gameplay Ed is right on the ball with answers.

link

Mighty Armies is fast and fun, I have Mayhem but haven't got round too playing yet so can't comment but they are a good price and recently were updated.

link

K.B

Our new rules, "Bear Yourselves Valiantly" (to be published this Summer) fits your requirements. Units can be made up of as many stands as you want and they can be rated anywhere on a morale scale of from 1 (best) to 10 (worse). You can read more about the rules here:
link

Here's a battle report from a recent club night game:
link

You might also look at HotT, or Basic Impetus with the fantasy additions, or Hail Caesar with the fantasy additions.

Doug

Kings of War does sound like it might be what you're looking for. You still might have to modify to get exactly the statlines you want, but the wealth of provided army lists will probably provide you with what you need.

As was said, the Free PDF's are all you'll need, though I liked the game enough to buy the book, and am glad I did.

Thanks, some good fodder for the mind. I'll look at a few of these.

I was on the same quest a couple years ago. I wanted a fantasy game that used bases, but multiple bases per unit, something like Field of Glory. But with magic, heroes, and monsters. I own, and have played, RRtK, Fantasy Rules, Mighty Armies, and HotT, and while they are all good games, they didn't provide what I was looking for. So I ended up heavily modifying 2nd ed. Battlesystem (played a lot of it in college, had a very nostalgic feel for it). The basic game suggests mounting multiple miniatures on one base, so it wasn't a big step to give stats to the base, rather than to the individual models on it, and to remove bases after they had taken enough damage, rather than individual models. It is a work in progress, but I really enjoy it, and it has led to some good friendly games.

I use Hail Caesar… simple to make stats with the standard troops as a template…

Emerald Tablet has my vote – Though I modified the magic piece a bit

Set for 20 to 1 or 1 to 1 scales

link
link (scroll to the bottom of the page) – basic description

I've always thought HotT models hordes well. Might not be what you are looking for--they are somewhat generic--but they give a great game.

So 2nd edition Battlesystem is the preferred version? Is there a huge difference from 1st?

2nd Ed. BS is more refined, and more streamlined. It is also more compatible with 2nd Ed. AD&D. The 2nd Ed. AD&D rulebook, Tome of Magic, has BS spell versions, as well as magical items, to enrich your BS games with.

2nd Ed. BS has a painting guide, which is rather nice for newbs, as well as breaking the rules down into sections. 2nd Ed. is more refined, in a single book format, but there is no index, and the rules can be a bit scattered. Still, I have always enjoyed it.

Generally speaking PRIDE OF LIONS is 3 bases per unit. However, a horde is defined in the rules pretty much along lines as you suggest: it can have any number of bases, and we generally use 9, in three ranks of three so it will have the same frontage as a regular unit. It is tough but fragile: losses to the front line are automatically replaced from the rear, and its morale can also be hard to break, but it is vulnerable to missile fire and to magic, and VERY vulnerable to flank attacks.

Swarms work the same way except they flow like water into gaps and around flanks.