"Space Marine advance force" Topic

Was thinking what a "first landing" force might have in it – the lightweight troops that could be placed by drop pod before the heavy landing craft (aka dropships) arrived.

There may be pathfinders (Scouts) already in situ making the LZ safe(r)

I'm thinking there would be no vehicles so the main stuff landing would be troops, troops with heavy weapons (Devastators) and Thunderfire cannon for support.

The only armour would be the power suits (Terminators) and Dreadnoughts in drop pods.

If modern lessons are anything to go by, air support would be limited to light craft that could survive in a heavy AA environment (ie very low flying) so probably land speeders or at best Stormtalons (Stormravens – aka big choppers – would be sitting ducks)

Thoughts?

The forces you describe probably wouldn't paint themselves bright red or blue either.
Trying to make 40K into less of a cartoon is a bit of the 'pig in a dress' situation… ending up with a ripped dress, an annoyed pig and some game that isn't 40K anymore.

I think they would definitely paint themselves bright blue or red or/and especially yellow.

If I'm some scumbag traitor guardsman with a lasgun and a lot of faith in my leader who says this planet is mine for the taking I'm probably just going to give up the ghost when I see that giant yellow hand on that giant banner being waved around by the giant yellow power armoured marine carrying it.

I can't really hurt them with my lasgun much anyway.

It isn't much different than knights wearing bright colors in the medieval period or modern tankers turning all of their tanks and lights on at the same time.

I think a lot of it depends on the mission parameters as well as chapter preferences. If,the mission is a recon in force then scouts would be deployed prior to the arrival of a company to secure a beach head. This type of landing would most likely not involve hitting opposition.

If the mission is a straight up cleanse mission. The marines are going to drop right on top of you. A drop pod assault lands Death-wind and Death-storm drop pods to wipe out anything in the LZ. Minutes later drop pods, storm ravens and thunder hawks are going to all land simultaneously. Terminators would most likely held in reserve and would be teleported in if necessary. I would think dreads hit in pods with the initial waves.

Like I said though, a lot will also be dictated by chapter preferences.

I would think supplies would also be teleported into a combat zone as well, not just Terminators. Scouts would clear a landing zone and establish homing beacons for the first wave, then supplies ported in to allow them to defend or push an advance. Minimum risk to transports if the mission is small and opposition in the zone is minimal.

I see the transports as being used when they are applying the sledgehammer approach.

As above. Also consider that Space Marines probably wouldn't be operating alone either, except in some very rare (IMHO) circumstances. Instead, they would likely be involved with a much larger force including Spaceborne assets, Imperial Guard, and the airpower they will bring. So while Drop pods might be one way to do it, they'd also have some support from thunderhawks toting Land Raiders too…

Damon.

If you look at modern forces there is something between the scouts/special forces and the huge force pouring off the battlefleet with all the trimmings described above.

It has crack troops but fairly light armour – typically they are easy to shift fast and so get to the hot spot when air superiority is not yet assured.

I don't think the need for this sort of force will go away even in 40,000AD – I guess you could imagine it as say the complement of Marines on a major dreadnought – that is the force I'm thinking about (and modelling it)

If the mission is a straight up cleanse mission…

Then why not just take out the targets from orbit? Not much reason for the risks/costs of a ground battle, seems to me.

Depends on whether the real estate is valuable in its original state or not I would guess.

Most airborne drops don't occur right on the objective but a couple of miles away then the drop troops leg it to where they need to be.

But we are talking about 40K and Space Marines…

"Then why not just take out the targets from orbit?"- Space Monkey

1. To avoid collateral damage.

2. To confirm the kill.

3. To seize and hold something of value.

4. To take prisoners.

There is also the possibility of ground based defenses destroying a ship in orbit.

I was only responding to the 'straight up cleanse mission'… not hostages or retrieval… and since when did the Imperium give a crud about collateral damage? They'll take out whole planets if it's deemed expedient.
It seems to me you guys are talking about a much more rational setting… not the over-the-top ridiculousness of 40K (which is really its main attraction, IMO).

"Imperium give a crud about collateral damage?"- Space Monkey

Commander enemy forces have occupied an industrial hub that is vital to our war effort in this sector. Orbital bombardment is out of the question since it would set back our campaign a decade if it was destroyed. Virus bombing the planet is also out of the question we need the local population to provide skilled labor. I expect some damage to the facility but it would be minimal and easily repaired compared to bombardment. Cleanse the objective of the heretics.

Just a thought Space monkey.

"It seems to me you guys are talking about a much more rational setting… not the over-the-top ridiculousness of 40K"

:)

That puts paid to my "Sensible Marines" project ;)

Akshully, as another thought, what do 40K space-navy marines look like do y'all think? IG, or would ships carry complements of SM?

TMP link

TMP link

Never mind scouts, there's the MK IV recon squad:

What Dragon Gunner said in all his posts … And as always, I'm a fan of camo/tac colors … I have yet to see in any modern conflict that any one runs away from armies in circus clown colors … Now, during the Korean War some of the US MBTs painted big tiger mouths and eyes on their front hull to intimidate the superstitious peasant Chinese infantry … But that may have been more propaganda then effective … And in both these cases, knights wearing bright colors in the medieval period or modern tankers turning all of their tanks and lights on at the same time. I believe those knights and MBTs were doing what they were more for identification then some sort of psyops … but you can believe what works for you … To justify painting GW SMs in pretty circus colors … LOL !

Great work 28mm ! Now that's tactical ! The enemy won't have time to be afraid, they'd be dead long before that happens …

Of course, modern conflicts are fought between regular humans using similar, if sometimes lopsided, weapon systems.

Not against 7' tall human acid spitting armored walls of muscle delivered from space who have no fear and who will not hesitate to kill every last person on the planet if they have to.

So yeah, I think colors might work in that regard.

40k has plenty of room for both military realism AND over the top grimdarkness. I think they can nicely compliment each other. They can sometimes come across as silly too. But that's 40k. It's a big universe.

"Not against 7' tall human acid spitting armored walls of muscle delivered from space who have no fear and who will not hesitate to kill every last person on the planet if they have to." You have not served with some of the guys I served with …

Ha! Touche.

The marines are going to drop right on top of you. A drop pod assault lands Death-wind and Death-storm drop pods to wipe out anything in the LZ.

True and they would bring some major pain.

But in the game they cannot even assault so what happens?

They move out of their Drop Pods and then get shot to pieces during the next turn.

Let them assault like they would be doing in real life and they would be top tier army.

To justify painting GW SMs in pretty circus colors…

That is why you should go with Dark Angels.

No bright colors for them.

Do orbital bombardments still miss on a '1'…?

Yep … some of my Dark Angels … �

Dark Angel Scouts/Recon … All my other SMs are in Tac/Camo colors as well … link

the over-the-top ridiculousness of 40K (which is really its main attraction, IMO).
This ! Yep that's 40K in all it's glory. No need to try to be realistic.

As always … do what works for you … not me …