"Spot the Assault Rifle" Topic

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Can anyone spot the assault rifles? I'm having a blind moment and can't see the assault rifles in the picture referred to in the text.

Regards

Typical scare mongering -lump in a couple of photos of air rifles too for good journalistic 'impact'……..stripped down Thompson,Sterling and Uzi but no 'assault rifles' in the pics………

No assault rifles (there is a AR18? missing some parts)but I did spot 2 CO2 powered BB pistols :) There are 3 SMGs

Well, the article says there were 30 weapons, but 30 weapons were not pictured there…

I have always thought that the metropolitan police definitions were not the same as mine.

x42

That's news? Sigh…

Then they would faint at the sight of my brother's arsenal! He has an actual AR-15, 5-6 pistols ranging from Glocks to his prized M1911 and he has a Garand, a Mauser, and a Springfield '06 for good measure. He's still looking for a SMLE and a Mosin-Nagant to complete his collection. I keep telling him that he needs M1917 Enfield too.

And don't get me started with my nephew and HIS personal collection… ,

"The danger of these weapons in the wrong hands cannot be overestimated."

Looks like someone could have been seriously hurt if someone hit them over the head with most of those. A couple could shoot your eye out.

Tgunner – you're not in the UK are you?

UK firearm laws are what they are, and most of that collection is not legally ownable in an operational state in the UK. And those that are have clearly not be correctly stored and managed. And probably none of them were registered.

Tgunner:

I know surplus dealers that regularly have Mosin-Nagants and both SMLE, Mk. 3s and No. 4s, and rarely the Pattern 1914s, available. If you want the contact information send me a pm.

Dennis

'Nuff said.

And this:

Great poster-Javelin! You know that all newsrooms have one of those!

Do you think they would sell me the Thompson to get it out of the UK?

No Tgunner, here in the UK the civilians most likely to have guns, especially in urban settings, are the criminals. Perish the thought responsible civilians might actually be able to enjoying shooting full-bore guns, as a hobby, far better to pass draconian laws about ownership, that only those said, responsible citizens, obey.

Anyway, when I worked in the dodgier parts of London that haul would have been laughed at. Police raided the flat next to one of my staff and took away pump action shotguns, SMG's , AR's (the real deal from the former Yugoslavia), suppressors and pistols and revolvers. Someone's for a good PR seizure, there are far worse caches of guns out there.

That should have read. It looks like somebody high up is grabbing someones bleeps for a good PR seizure.

Looks like a Crosman single shot pellet pistol and what might be a paintball marker in that 'assault weapons cache' too. Oh the horror.

J98 – Where can I get that poster?

I'm pretty sure that pellet guns aren't "firearms".

Han Solo's pistol is in there too.

Han Solo is on the terror list for seditious activities against the Empire……

Thankful to live in a country which for the moment still allows lawful private ownership of firearms.

For a nation to remain free the people must be educated, have a truely free press and the have ability to resist repressive government. (Not that all that a govt does is repressive, rather having the capability to resist helps to make them stop and think for a bit)

I would say that was just my opinion but it was also the opinion of the founding fathers of the USA.

Hey Dennis,

I'm not a supporting member right now but I'm interested in the connection! I can't have any guns personally, promised the wife while we have minor kids, so I live vicariously through my brother who's nearly an empty nester so he has them. At least I get some trigger time! But yeah, I'm interested. I want a MK I because I'm a WWI nut. My brother wants a No 4 MK I because he's watched "A Bridge Too Far" far too many times. I think he should get both! 8 D

We can legally own firearms in the UK too, but there are restrictions on particular types. I believe that is the case in many states in the USA as well.

No problem with lee enfields, mausers, moisins etc though.

No Tgunner, here in the UK the civilians most likely to have guns, especially in urban settings, are the criminals. Perish the thought responsible civilians might actually be able to enjoying shooting full-bore guns, as a hobby, far better to pass draconian laws about ownership, that only those said, responsible citizens, obey.

We're heading that way here in the states. I wouldn't dream of having a collection like my brother's here in Maryland. But my wife said that I could get my 1911 soon. I guess I could be happy with that.. But I have to get a gun lock, store the ammo. In a different room, and basically defeat the purpose for having one except for target shooting. But I did promise my wife.

But owning a 1911, not so easy, all because an anti-social loner, who never should have been let near a gun (ditto the Hungerford shooter with the assault rifle ban) committed an appalling crime.

The Detroit Police chief seems to have strong views on gun ownership, I certainly know the people who tried to smash down my front door would have perhaps been a bit more wary if they'd known I could legally carry a firearm. Never mind the helpful police suggested they were too busy, so I then threated to breakdown the thugs door and give them a kicking, they then said they could send a vehicle around immediately but advised me I would be arrested!

For most in the media, they wouldn't know an assault rifle if they were hit over the head with it … Just like anything with tracks is a tank …

Then again it is good news that this is the sort of weapons that criminals are now having to rent, 39 gun related homicides in 2011/12 is a encouraging trend from 10 years ago.

I want a MK I because I'm a WWI nut. My brother wants a No 4 MK I because he's watched "A Bridge Too Far" far too many times. I think he should get both! 8 D

Yes, yes you should get both! The Lee-Enfield bolt is IMO the best bolt-action rifle design, full stop. Mauser is better than the Moisin, but not by much, and neither one is better than the Enfield.

I'm trying to locate an old Magazine Lee-Enfield, not the shortened version.

39 gun related homicides in 2011/12 is a encouraging trend from 10 years ago.

And what's the total violent crime numbers now compared to 10 years ago? I doubt that the total numbers are significantly less, it's just that more people are getting stabbed or bludgeoned to death instead of shot.

Total violent crime fell by 10% so absolute numbers are down as well so it is not a displacement. The total number of murders has decreased.

However we must remember that the US and Britain have significantly different cultures regarding gun ownership and use in violent crime so lessons between the nations are difficult to transpose. As shown above where some of the collections in the US would be worth a fortune in the UK where unavailability of firearms is causing a sub economy in renting guns for use in crime, with surcharges if you fire them :-)

As these weapons are matched already to previous crimes by ballistic evidence makes it risky to rent them, but due to scarcity they don't dispose of them often.

However the perception of safety has fallen, but the time period does coincide with the rise of 24 hour rolling news in the UK. If you have news time to fill then you repeat the same crime stories and give the impression of an increasing violent society.

Remember good news doesn't sell newspapers.

Tgunner:

Email me at dsenfield at aol dot com and I'll email you the site links for the surplus dealers.

Dennis

I see at least one weird-ass AR pistol there. It doesn't have a buffer tube, so I suspect that it's actually a CO2 pellet gun or something equally weird.

No guns for me for the moment…but I've got my eye on an A2-style AR once I move out.

Don't forget you often pay a surcharge if the weapon has been used for a successful hit (which often includes innocent bystanders). Bit dumb, since you are more likely to be caught.

If we are talking about UK traditions, it used to be that law abiding citizens could keep most types of firearm, now everyone is tarred by the same brush. The result is a virtual breakdown in law and order in certain inner city areas, often ones I had no problem navigating, alone at night. Now, I feel unsure, even in public places in the day, and many students I teach, left London citing the appalling state of affairs in the Capital.

Don't also lull yourself into a false state of security about it's all news 24's fault for highlighting the bad news, talk to the police, they are less than reassuring about the future.

Now I do agree with, lawlessness has increased dramatically in inner city areas while falling in other areas, and something will have to be done soon about that. You only have to look at the number of police officers I know who spent years trying to get into the Met who have now moved to rural forces for a quiet life!

As for tarred with the same brush, when I think back on gun safety and control before Hungerford I shudder at how lax it was, and I speak from someone who had a collection. You could have equipped a small army with the use of a crowbar on a rainy night, and some of the guys I knew should not have been allowed a banana let alone a gun. Nowadays it is the cost of storage rather than weapons that is the issue, with hidden fixed cabinets, regular checks etc.

Exactly, the main improvements could have been stricter controls on storage and psych evaluations on holders of guns, not a blanket ban on categories of weapon. I also think that the police were complacent about the rise in gun ownership, amongst gangs, and certain communities unwilling to accept the truth and too ready to blame others.

Tgunner
Re your brother's collection – presumably he is not a quartermaster/armourer for local gangs though.

Looks like someone could have been seriously hurt if someone hit them over the head with most of those
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Though the Uzi, if real would do rather more than that to your average unarmed UK police officer or MoP caught in cross-fire. As ChargeSir points out one of the good things in a way about the UK is that guns are still so relatively rare that they tend to be hired out and that things like Baikal blank firers crop up a lot – I suspect that any US crim found with a converted blank firer would be sacked from the criminals union! Also in contrast to the US, guns are probably less common in terms of being tools to assist serious crime than would be imagined (and even the TV in the UK would portray) – eg who'd believe a TV program where hundred of kilos of drugs were being moved without any weapons in the possession of the organisers/transport bods – yet that often happens in the UK.

If we are talking about UK traditions, it used to be that law abiding citizens could keep most types of firearm, now everyone is tarred by the same brush. The result is a virtual breakdown in law and order in certain inner city areas, often ones I had no problem navigating, alone at night. Now, I feel unsure, even in public places in the day, and many students I teach, left London citing the appalling state of affairs in the Capital.

What? Virtual breakdown in law and order? I live in one of these 'certain inner city areas' and do not recognise this. OK, there are certain areas that I would be very cautious of entering at night (enclosed, dark etc) but that would hold true of any town in England.

Even if I give you that law and order is breaking down – you state for a certainty that this is because of gun control laws. Care to back this up with conclusive evidence for such a certain statement?

Would also caution about discussion gun control laws on this forum as A. Am fairly certain that it breaks the 'no modern politics rule' and B. There is a very different culture about firearms ownership in the US and UK ( the main two countries were people on these forums come from). This means there can be an awful lot of misunderstanding / talking past each other.

When I discuss such issues with friends / people I know I usually spend a lot of time trying to explain the American outlook / gun control ownership / culture (being a liberal lefty type person as are most of my friends they are very much firmly in the 'guns should be banned Americans are nutty gunfreaks' camp). Which I feel is a very lopsided and unbalanced view of the issue. I must admit to being jealous of the ability to own a collection of guns and being able to shoot them for pleasure, would love to own a Lee Enfield and feel that the UK had got the balance of its gun laws wrong.

On the other hand, when the last instance of school children being shot in school happened in the US the news talked about how the school implemented its 'emergency gun armed nutter' procedure. Can't help that feeling that a society where such shootings are happening on a semi regular basis and its response is to teach children to lock themselves in the cupboard has got something wrong as well.

I must admit to being jealous of the ability to own a collection of guns and being able to shoot them for pleasure, would love to own a Lee Enfield and feel that the UK had got the balance of its gun laws wrong.

You can own and shoot a Lee Enfield. There are some annoying administrative hoops to jump through, but it isn't *that* hard.

And there's one range nearby to me that allows full-bore rifle shooting and only once a month and none for full bore pistols, which I used to shoot regularly. I like full-bore rifles but preferred full-bore pistols, which are cheaper to shoot and require far smaller shooting ranges which can be indoors, handy given the weather we have around here in the flatter than flat Fens.

As for British attitudes, when ever the subject comes about the US attitude to guns (the kids will normally parrot the liberal line of how silly they are and by implication how sophisticated and clever we are), I ask the class a question. If you were to be attacked by a maniac in school, would you prefer me to be armed with a board rubber of a 9mm automatic? Strangely enough they rarely pick the board rubber! The exercise has normally generated a good deal of discussion, which is it's purpose, as I find students parrot far too many 'correct' ideas about a whole range of subjects without truly understanding them or any alternative viewpoints.

Milites
As one of those liberals (and a Christian and someone with 30 years in various UK law enforcement jobs I wouldn't agree that I am parroting anything – its one of those things that people we agree with of course sensibly arrive at their views whereas those we don't agree with – in my case right wingers and DM readers – parrot etc others views – UKIP's little Englander view in the case of many DM readers), surely the point re your board rubber question is that living in a country with a gun culture like the US, it seems one's school is more likely to be attacked by a maniac able as per Sandy Hook to do immense damage in a short period (or as in the case of the female prof passed over for tenure, pull out a gun and start taking providing her response in 9mm format). That teachers might have to carry guns to protect pupils is just a symptom of how bad things are in the first place – and of course after Sandy Hook there were people advocating that schools have either guards or trained teachers with access to heavier weaponry.
As above and having lived in London, I don't accept that it was post Hungerford and Dunblane legislation that suddenly made parts of the inner cities high crime areas – more like the growth of gang culture, social deprivation and a huge boom in drug demand and use allied to the vast amounts of money that the latter generates.

on the point btw on assault rifles, most UK police officers don't like guns and know very little about them even if the more paranoid of the public imagine that they are champing at the bit to be armed and blow citizens away. Having said that, the people doing press releases should know better – though I myself have seen material given to the press on a plate which it still manages to chop about and get wrong

Sorry, never said you were parroting anything, just that I have this bizarre notion that teaching is about presenting different ideas and perspectives honestly and getting my students to discuss and come to their own 'objective' opinions. Instead, the secondary school system too often seems to regurgitate the odious 'When I lean left I'm right' philosophy and only pays lip service to other arguments. A classic example being the children are never taught about the estimated casualties of operation Olympic and Coronet, when discussing the rights and wrongs of dropping the bomb. They are instead, carefully steered to the 'correct' opinion by lopsided class materials and resources.

As for the board rubber, yeah, it's meant to be provocative, but I also talk about and encourage the alternative view, ably made by yourself, in your last post. I take your point about the various factors influencing the rise in gang culture, but you missed out the breakdown of the traditional role of the police in society, the often counter-intuitive impact of the welfare state and the breakdown of the traditional family unit. Especially important as gangs now provide that role, albeit a highly twisted and perverted substitute.

My main point, is that removing the ability for law abiding citizens to defend themselves, whilst offering an often woeful official response to those who flout the law, weakens the vital role of vindication in any system of justice. I just see it getting worse, which is worrying, as like many on this blog I'm a father to a young child.

Milites
Off topic I know but yes I'm all in favour of putting alternate povs esp on things like WW1 and atom bombs (given of course than on some issues like WW1 you have right wingers also chiming in with the whole the war was wrong as it besmirches their favourite country with the nicest uniforms and helmets). Sadly having been involved in various roles in 30 years for different organisations, i think much of the breakdown of the role of the police is of their own making – some of the stories of what used to happen in olden days (weighted truncheons, sap gloves, people being given a good hiding, "sign here for your property – oh look you've just signed a caution witness statement admitting the offence") are actually pretty appalling and social changes (and tech) just mean that people won't accept that any more which is a good thing. Even today there are still people in the police and other organisations who forget its a job and not their life and therefore have this us and them attitude. As someone pointed out (it being Easter) Jesus was beaten up by Herod's troops before he even went before the courts – why – because they could – the exercise of power is an end in itself (a point I think that anyone of a humanitarian nature who reads about nearly any casual state brutality is struck by).

Agreed about the police's role, I was always quite shocked at some officers callous indifference to, often black on black, gang crime, summed up by the, 'if they are shooting each other who cares' attitude. Though having known serving police officers and heard the appalling, everyday stories, stories, I'd find it hard to keep a sense of perspective.

Personally, as a Christian I was saddened by the miserable lives of the people who were making my families life a misery, but in todays society no one seems to really care about personal responsibility. Schools pay lip service, but are constantly hampered by parents who are simple amoral and a society that refuses to realise that in the end the piper must be paid, in full. For me, gun ownership and the ability to fire them is an important token of a governments faith in its citizens, nanny knows best attitudes tend to alienate those people, who historically have been needed by successive governments of what ever political persuasion.

Right wingers supporting the Kaiser, really? I know it's customary to vilify the Daily Mail, but at least that publication makes no bones about it biases, the Grauniad, in more recent years, less so. Still, with the wonders of the interweb I read articles from over a dozen publications daily, so whilst unashamedly 'right-wing' I do try and see the other side.

Bad guys can always get guns … And recently in the US, a High School student stabbed 16 of his fellow students, teachers and even a Security Guard in the hallway with 2 kitchen steak knives … In the US, deaths from gunshot wounds is actually out numbered significantly by something like 10 to 1 or more by blunt force weapons and knifes … just saying …