"Sample Packs - A thing of the past?" Topic

I'm currently in the process of trying to get my local club involved in some ACW gaming. With this being a period with a LOT of 15mm manufacturers I thought to do the obvious, ask around for some sample packs from the top manufacturers, paint up and compare two mixed bases of Confederates and Union soldiers, then take them down the club to show the lads who makes what, what quality they are, and to start planning our first orders.

I sent out a round of emails this morning, and got a very intriguing reply from Old Glory. The fella in the email said they didn't sell individual figures (i can appreciate this) but really what caught my eye was he said he hadn't been asked this question for several years! I really thought it was pretty common? Is it now considered rude or unusual to ask for sample packs before placing an order nowadays?

I'd asked where about on their site I could find their sample packs or smaller packs range, asking specifically for a single Union soldier in march/attack and a single Confederate in march/attack. Saying that the range was photographed and that these days sample packs simply aren't used any more seemed a little bit strange to me!

In comparison, Peter Pig, Xan Miniatures and AB have all been kind enough to respond about sending me out something small (and I've offered each of them my paypal address so they can invoice me the postage costs and whatever they charge per model).

So my real question is, is it true that sample packs are a thing of the past and that i was rude for asking, or is this just a single company being a bit picky?

Was really thinking about using Blue Moon for the whole purchase as they have such a large range, but i'm put off by not being able to see them first hand before buying them, and the Prussian Napoleonic Line I've previously bought from them had a myriad of issues with the faces. Are BM 18mm ACW highly recommended in these parts?

Cheers!

Free sample packs are pretty much a thing of the past, and companies who offer sample packs to purchase aren't all that common in my experience. For me, buying a single pack to check the figures out doesn't work because of the increase in postal charges or a reliance on flat rate postal charges.

Best is going to a show and checking the product out first hand, but that isn't always possible. Instead, I rely on other peoples' reviews and the comparison shots that some folks post. They are very helpful.

Pretty much – pictures have replaced sample packs.

Speaking as a 30 year-old who's only been in the non-GW side of the hobby for less than 10 years (more than 8), I think sample packs sound a little weird – especially in the sense of "unoffical" ones for which one must approach the seller oneself when they are not already listed in the seller's webstore or online catalogue. Very occasionally on TMP I've seen questions to the effect of "which manufacturer's range should I choose?" receive answers to the effect of "e-mail each of them for free samplers and decide for yourself", but I personally would not want to annoy the seller with such requests. (Of course, we Swedish are known as a conflict-avoiding lot with sticks up our backsides. Make of that what you will.)

I've very rarely seen sample packs listed in webstores or online catalogues, and IIRC have only ever ordered one (a 3mm ACW sampler from Pico Armour, a couple of years back).

The issue with sample packs for many companies now days is the way they mold the figures with a related issue of storage of the figures.

In the past, many lines where molded with just a single figure of pose in the mold. They mold was spun and the figures sorted into a bin. The person packing the figures would pull from the bins. This made providing samples a lot easier.

Now, many companies like Blue Moon and Old Glory, just to name a couple, set their molds up for what goes in the package. Thus, to spin a sample pack cost as much to manufacture as spinning up a retail package. And, with the amount of molds and the space required to store finished product, there is little to no room for having bins of sample figures. Remember, for a large company it means having bins for every type of figure in every range produced, which in turns means a lot of shelf space other wise used for mold and product storage.

Remember, you may only want specific ACW figures, one or two codes, whereas the Blue Moon line has over 100 codes and in the figures has over 1000 variants. Again, you may only want a sampling with specifying a pose variant, but Blue Moon has had request for samples that are pose variant specific.

Also, many companies are now out sourcing their casting. Which means that what they order is now limited to how it is sold on their web pages. To break apart a package may mean that they have left over items that they can not sell or are not wanted as samples. To get replacement pieces form the caster can push the price of that package beyond it's retail value.

basically, it is not rude to ask, but don't be surprised if that manufacture can not provide you with samples. Also, there are several sites and blogs that do comparisons of the various manufacturers in the same manor that you plan to do.

I do sample packs on request. I think most manufacturers would be fine in doing so.

crackerlineminis.com

I have done so on numerous ocassions usually resulting in at least one order.

B

I think there is no harm in asking especially if you are looking at a large purchase. Large isn't just £50.00 GBP though.

We've always sent out free samples, it's never been a problem. We keep spares trays for a lot of the popular ranges, so it's easy enough to pick through those. Other requests get spun up specifically.

Miniatureships is right though that a lot of companies don't have the space to keep spares of everything, or even stock on hand. We've got 3500 codes, over 10,000 individual figures, so there's no way we can keep stock/spares of everything without moving to a massive warehouse to hold it all.

If your group would be tempted by 10mm ACW instead though, drop me an email!

Sample packs are perfect for recasters, aren't they?

Adler sent me some random samples, which I appreciated because I've never seen nor handled 6mm miniatures in person before and wasn't sure if I could work with the scale. Photos sometimes don't help in those situations. ;-)

@altfritz, I am sure those types can come by their ill-gotten-booty by other means as well!

I won't worry about re-casters: frankly 15mm is so cheap it hardly seems that would be the issue.

In 8+ years in business I can count on one hand the number of times I've been asked for samples. But then I'm a retailer so I would have to break up a retail pack to do that.

Frankly, I take returns so a lot of guys just buy one or two packs and see how it goes. Once in a while they get sent back.

Also, when i have been asked for samples it is usually very specific: wanting specific poses or codes. That would imply i have samples of each and every figure in the line up. It's one thing to ask to see a random set to test casting and sculpt quality. But to want pose A from pack 900 and pose C from pack 725….

Thanks for the replies guys, gives me a few different ways of looking at things. When nearly 90% of the threads on here with people asking about figures has at least one reply of "Ask for a sample" I figured that it was a lot more common still.

Though if photography really is replacing samples, then more should be done to increase the quality of the photographs. Black Ink/Wash and a little zoom would be nice, bare metal in some of these photos is very hard to pick up on, going to have to buy a pack of BM 18mms and see what they're like before I make a further decision then.

Cheers all.

You're right CPBelt, I had forgotten about Adler. They sent me some a good sample of their 10mm Romans and Celts. Lovely figures.

One final note. Shipping costs have increased dramatically. To ship even a single figure outside the US now costs $7 USD or more. Inside the US it's $2.25 USD or so. Not counting the cost of the figure(s) itself, plus packaging.

Technology has moved on.. years ago it was mail order, you might never see the trader, or the best you had was a dodgy photocopy of a mass produced price list one would paw over whilst planning your force, so would need a sample to see if you liked the sculpting style and poses.

These days, high definition photos and plenty of site and personal blogs reviewing miniatures. So combined with the above points on casting methods and costs, sadly they are probably fading out on the whole.

I believe they call it progress! lol..

I still miss the wait for the little package to arrive and the first look at a range of figures.

Lancashire games sent me a painted sample, and wouldn't take a penny. And yes I then placed an order for a full Russian Corps, although they had to supply minifigs for officers and cannon.

I think they do ACW, btw, are excellent value and look rather nice painted up.

And yes, Goose is right. In the old days they hsd to mail you a naff photocopy listing of their figures, so they put a few samples in with it while they were at it. Nowadays who posts out price lists???

I always used to send a fairly small amount of money – maybe $10 USD or so – and say "Here's what I'm interested in." Companies would usually send a decent sampling. One company – I felt – had nice enough figures but didn't really send what I felt was my 'money's worth', and I didn't buy anything else from them.

When I worked for Fffffff --- a miniatures company, once set on Guernsey in the late '90s, there was one kid who'd call up, using different versions of his name, asking for sample packs from different ranges, about once a week. I think he single-handedly caused the company to give up sending out samples to anyone, ever again.

Are BM 18mm ACW highly recommended in these parts?

Missed that part first read through. IMO the sculpts look a bit goofy. For 15mm ACW I really prefer the Battle Honors 15mm or the AB 18mm figures, the latter being a lot more expensive. I'm probably in the minority, which is ok.

BTW the Adler 6mm ACW figures are fantastic and would paint super-easy due to the ACW's simple uniforms.

Always reckon sending out samples is part of the business really. Cant remember it being abused by anyone ever but then again Im in something of a niche market. Certainly sending overseas is an expensive job these days.
L

I have bought sample packs before by simply asking of they could send me a 15mm packs worth of assorted figures from the range I was interested in. To be fair it was to go in a box of other stuff I was ordering but no questions asked and good service.

Essex miniatures seem well prepared for such requests see link (note ACW included on this page)

Irregular and Pendraken have certainly been helpful in this regard.

Within the EU online and postal customers can now return any figures they don't like and in effect just pay the postage so there's less risk if the figures aren't what you wanted. I doubt many people deliberately use the returns rules to view samples but who knows.

Just got a sample through this morning from Pendraken, wow but their 10mm line is brilliant!

Leon at Prendraken has always been a good trader along with Bill at Cracker Line who is both a personnel friend and a good trader. These two individuals are excellent examples of what companies should do to build there company and get repeat business. I can understand the issues but absolutely appreciate their approach.

Hi

'I sent out a round of emails this morning, and got a very intriguing reply from Old Glory. The fella in the email said they didn't sell individual figures (i can appreciate this) but really what caught my eye was he said he hadn't been asked this question for several years!'

I purchased a mixed sample bag of Old Glory and Battle honours 18mm figures from them about a year ago – the only concern the chap had was that shipping from the US to the UK might be expensive – which it wasn't!

What I found disturbing was that Timecast (the UK stockist of Battl;e Honours figures) wouldn't sell me a sample, stating they could not break open a bag!!!

Go figure – for breaking open a bag they might have got several hundered pounds worth of orders from me….

Many Uk based companies (in my experience) will send you a bag of samples – and in some cases not charge you (not that I have a problem paying for them).