Maxshadow | 13 Apr 2014 11:09 p.m. PST |
Has a consensus been reached on the arms of the Immortals and the close order Median/Persian foot? Was it front ranks spear shield, middle ranks spear bow and rear ranks bow? |
evilgong | 13 Apr 2014 11:57 p.m. PST |
Who knows? A few weeks back I read (in translation) a cuneiform weapons list for a unit that was spear, bow and shield for all the men. Other lists have some spears and bows and shields but not enough for every man to have one of each. I'd depict elite units with all weapons and lesser status units with fewer. I suspect we are more hung up on weaponry than the ancients were. Regards David F Brown |
gavandjosh02 | 14 Apr 2014 1:31 a.m. PST |
Hi evilgong. Is that translation available? I've adopted the approach put forward by Duncan Head in his work on the Persian army: all front ranks with the large wicker shield, and:- Immortals – all with bow and spear; Others – front rank spear; 8 ranks bow; last rank bow and spear. In wargaming terms: front rank spear + wicker shield; 2nd bow. 3rd rank (if any) bow. |
Maxshadow | 14 Apr 2014 2:03 a.m. PST |
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Bellbottom | 14 Apr 2014 2:03 a.m. PST |
I personally go with Duncan Head |
GurKhan | 14 Apr 2014 2:41 a.m. PST |
I have no update on the "Achaemenid Persian Army" book, in terms of ethnic Persian units. The front-rank-only big wicker shield still seems to me to fit both the battle accounts and the artistic evidence. However, as for cuneiform: I don't know if it is the example David was looking at, but John McGinnis' "Arrows of the Sun" publishes cuneiform tablets concerning temple-raised troops from Sippar in Babylonia, and they do all seem to have bow and spear. Whether they have shields or not, however, is not clear: there is no reference to any word known to mean "shield", but some tablets mention a "hide" which the translator speculates could be a kind of shield. cheers, Duncan |
Who asked this joker | 14 Apr 2014 6:28 a.m. PST |
Go with bow-spear-shield and you have it all covered. That is usually what the figure manufacturers do. |
Cyrus the Great | 14 Apr 2014 10:20 a.m. PST |
I prefer the front rank sparabara, 2nd through 4th ranks spear and dipylon shield and 5th through 10th ranks bow. The Immortals equipped with bow, spear and dipylon shield. |
Zargon | 14 Apr 2014 12:04 p.m. PST |
Like the Impetvs way of doing it. Double units one behind the other for the Sparabara unit with front element spara and spear (including command etc. Next rank bow, the element behind with 2 ranks bow. This looks and plays good IMO. ( You can do just one half size back element to save figures and money even, as it depicts the same thing in Impetvs- seen this done and looks OK. I'm going to do this and rather get extra cavalry with the savings) Cheers all |
evilgong | 14 Apr 2014 2:55 p.m. PST |
Duncan mentions the texts I was thinking of. Looks like I mis-remembered the evidence for shields which I thought was stronger, at least for the multi-armed group. My old DBm army depicts some elements a bit like 'Cyrus the Great', above, suggests, albeit over 3 ranks on a double-base element. That choice was party due to figs then available (the army was a 7th ed force re-based). Some units I have with a front of sparabara spearman and archers (no spears) behind. Regards David F Brown |
Maxshadow | 16 Apr 2014 12:05 a.m. PST |
That's interesting because I've never considered it might have been a bring what you like arrangement. |
JezEger | 16 Apr 2014 3:07 a.m. PST |
I think that would be true of levies as opposed to those armed by the state. For me, Persian armies are archers which shot from a static palisades position while their noble cavalry won the battle. Regular (ish) troops would carry a spear as well to ward of enemy cavalry. It wouldn't make sense to carry a regular shield as well as this would hinder use of the bow. When they met Alexander and the Kardakes came into being, this was noted as a change. No more skies blacked by arrows etc. they wouldn't have had to change if they were already spear and shield armed foot. Just my thoughts. |