Korvessa | 13 Apr 2014 9:44 a.m. PST |
Yesterday, while I was at my sons' martial arts thingie, I was talking to a young black belt (22 year old college student at CSUS) about the origins of his discipline. This particular one is only about 50 years old. So I mentioned how I had heard some martial arts started in the time of Ghengis Khan. He said who? Had never heard of him. |
GR C17 | 13 Apr 2014 10:00 a.m. PST |
I worked with a kid whose answer to any question or comment about someone or something he'd not heard about was,"was that before 1988?". He's decided that if it happened before he was born he doesn't need to know. |
Space Monkey | 13 Apr 2014 10:08 a.m. PST |
As a kid I never had that attitude
'old' usually meant interesting to me. But I certainly had friends in the Cult of the New. Even now I know guys my own age with zero tolerance for black & white movies or discussions of anything outside their bubble. I think it's a general anti-intellectualism that goes hand-in-pocket with rampant consumerism. |
Rich Bliss | 13 Apr 2014 11:12 a.m. PST |
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. We who remember history are doomed to watch them |
Dr Mathias | 13 Apr 2014 11:34 a.m. PST |
I teach at a two-year college. It's very scary. A few weeks ago we were starting High Renaissance and naturally I like to bring in some historical perspective, in terms of world events and cultural changes etc. I asked my Art History class "What happened in 1492?" Crickets chirping. 30+ students age 18 and up. Most won't have heard of Sigmund Freud either and I'll be lucky if even one can talk about what he was known for. As a little ungraded quiz I'll ask my class on Tuesday who Genghis Khan was, and as a little cherry on top I'll have them write down an approximate date for him. I'll get from 2000 BC to 1950, I can almost guarantee it. Every year I consider moving down to high school level so that I can intervene four years earlier. |
Space Monkey | 13 Apr 2014 12:10 p.m. PST |
But I don't think it's just young people
go out and ask the average middle-aged Wal Mart shopper about Genghis Khan and see what sort of answers you get. The reason the kids don't know or care is because their parents don't either. I know kids who are interested in history
and others who get upset if I use 'big words' or talk about 'old stuff'
the most obvious difference between them is their parents
who are basically the same way. |
David Manley | 13 Apr 2014 2:02 p.m. PST |
I was surprised how many USAnians on a visit to Fort Massachusetts didn't know the significance of 1861 |
Zephyr1 | 13 Apr 2014 2:15 p.m. PST |
"As a little ungraded quiz I'll ask my class on Tuesday who Genghis Khan was, and as a little cherry on top I'll have them write down an approximate date for him. I'll get from 2000 BC to 1950, I can almost guarantee it." You'll get at least one answer that he appeared in South Park
. ;-) |
Dan Cyr | 13 Apr 2014 2:21 p.m. PST |
Every day folks, every day. Don't think it is any thing new. Dan |
Korvessa | 13 Apr 2014 2:26 p.m. PST |
I remember this conversation between two high school honor students: Was Lee with the Union or Confederacy? No, he was for the South. |
James Wood | 13 Apr 2014 3:10 p.m. PST |
While teaching European history I asked one student what Joseph Goebbels would have thought about Voltaire's talent for inventive. He sat there silently for a moment, and then said "Sorry, but I don't know who Joseph Goebbels is." Well
what about Adolph Hitler? |
Bashytubits | 13 Apr 2014 3:32 p.m. PST |
My youngest brother, who was the only one of us whom my parents shelled out money for college was asked who won the American civil war, his response was "I'm not sure but I think it was the west." Sigh and chuckle. |
Space Monkey | 13 Apr 2014 3:59 p.m. PST |
I used to work at the lab with a guy who was graduating, heading off for medical school. The medical school he got into was in Chicago and one afternoon we found him puzzling over the atlas, wondering why the maps covered 'California' and 'Colorado' but left out 'Chicago'
In partial defense of the guy he really had no interest in being a doctor, his real love was diving and he wanted to move next to the ocean and open a dive shop
but his father had proclaimed that it was gonna be 'lawyer or doctor!' |
John the OFM | 13 Apr 2014 5:29 p.m. PST |
Sherlock Holmes knew what he needed to know. Let's be honest. Do you REALLY "need" to know who was the Union commander at Gettysburg? Is that REALLY more valuable to know than who Kim Kardassian's Baby Daddy is? We know the things we know because we want to know them. I have no need to know if Japanese has a Pluperfect Future Intensive tense for its verbs. Nor do I need to know if Japanese actually makes a distinction between verbs and nouns! |
Henry Martini | 13 Apr 2014 6:37 p.m. PST |
They may not know who Ghengis Khan was, but they do know his wrath was terrible and he gave Captain Kirk a sleepless night or three. |
Caesar | 13 Apr 2014 8:01 p.m. PST |
I, too, want to lament that the average person isn't as educated as I am. Particularly about details for areas I am especially well versed in. Without looking it up, how many of you know the difference between algebraic rings, fields and groups? What? Doesn't anyone have a mathematical education these days? The biggest problem with young people today is that they weren't born knowing everything that I do
|
jowady | 13 Apr 2014 8:27 p.m. PST |
It is dangerous in a Democracy to have an ignorant populace. |
brass1 | 13 Apr 2014 9:09 p.m. PST |
I can remember walking through the reenactors' area at Chalmette Battlefield three years ago during the Battle of New Orleans anniversary celebration and hearing a guy who looked to be in his 30s say to his son "Now the guys here in the blue coats, that's our army and " (pointing towards the British camp, where redcoats and Highlanders were lounging about) " those are the Confederates." LT |
Korvessa | 13 Apr 2014 9:58 p.m. PST |
Caesar: Considering Genghis Khan probably had a bigger influence on the course of human events (save perhaps the founders of the major religions) yeah, I would expect everyone to know of him – not just history junkies like myself |
Zargon | 13 Apr 2014 10:40 p.m. PST |
It is dangerous in a Democracy to have an ignorant populace. In the unabridged sayings of the knowledge 'jowady' (above) Yes a bit of 1066 is important IMO but if the hoipoloi don't know, more power to us me thinks let them think 'geek' they were lost on thinking it anyway (But lest we feel too superior remember the all to faulty memory of us mere mortals "I've had red cheeks oft enough on a wrong answer too")) Got to love it all though. Cheers all |
GurKhan | 14 Apr 2014 3:53 a.m. PST |
I know who Chingis Khan was, but who's this "Genghis" guy? :-) |
OSchmidt | 14 Apr 2014 4:12 a.m. PST |
Oh PULEEEEZE!!!! I got you all beat by a mile. I remember in one GRADUATE LEVEL HISTORY COURSE this one student announced with supreme profundity and moral rectitude that she "Didn't blame the Japanese for attacking us at Pearl Harbor, after all We started it by destroying Hiroshima and Nagasaki!" I, not being able to resist added "And Don't forget us putting all the Japanese in Concentration Camps Too!" She immediately nodded her head and said "That's right, and over 10 million died in those camps." "And Nixon did it all! right!?" She nodded in agreement. I was reprimanded by the Professor after class "You know Schmidt, you really are a vile sadist-- you love kicking puppies in the corner too much." So dear boys, forget about high school, grade school and college, it goes even into grad school. No hope. |
Schogun | 14 Apr 2014 4:58 a.m. PST |
Not my line, but
"Let's take dumb out of Freedom." |
Meiczyslaw | 14 Apr 2014 6:51 a.m. PST |
I remember in one GRADUATE LEVEL HISTORY COURSE this one student announced with supreme profundity and moral rectitude that she "Didn't blame the Japanese for attacking us at Pearl Harbor, after all We started it by destroying Hiroshima and Nagasaki!" Could be worse. Could've learned all their history from Animal House. Or is that movie too old for them? |
Zargon | 14 Apr 2014 8:19 a.m. PST |
LOL. Der OSchmidt takes it. |
OSchmidt | 14 Apr 2014 9:15 a.m. PST |
Dear Zargon Thank you, but that's one prize I would rather not have won! There's no real fun in saying "I told you so!" Otto |
Patrick Sexton | 14 Apr 2014 10:51 a.m. PST |
"go out and ask the average middle-aged Wal Mart shopper about Genghis Khan and see what sort of answers you get." Really, you think it is some mythical Wal-Mart shopper that is the standard beare of stupid/ignorant/ill-educated? I have run into far more 'hipsters' (for want of a better term) that have no frak'n clue as to any amount of history or any knowledge of current events that wasn't provided by The Daily Show. (and that isn't a slam on the host) These are the people who still think Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house. |
OSchmidt | 14 Apr 2014 10:56 a.m. PST |
And now to talk out of the other side of my mouth. You know it's not really that bad to not Know Who Ghengiz Khan is. One of the advantages of our Western Liberal Society is that if anyone WANTS to know they can find out in short order. How much "top of the head" knowledge do we need, or rather how much do we need to keep on "top of the head." When I took my first philosophy course the Instructor gave us a little quiz at the start of the class, Day 1. It had two questions on it. 1. How many types of snow are there? 2. Do Butterflies dream? They weren't really trick questions but they were meant to be evocative questions in the sense that the answer to both of them was "Whatever you need to make your reality work." Snow is a big part of an Eskimo's life therefore they have 112 or so words (I forget the exact number but it's around there) for snow. We have only a half dozen or so. The point was simple. We go after or create those words and knowledge we need to make sense out of our reality and run our day to day lives. We cannot have all knowledge in our noodles, but we need enough to get along. More, if we want it or need it we can find out in short order. So knowing who Ghengiz Khan is, may not be a day-to-day-survival skill. I DO think that knowing who your congressman and Senators are is more important, and especially things like "All Money Bills must originate from the House." is far more important but that's just me. We all have specialized knowledge which we hold and retain. Remember that to many our keeping whole volumes of historical facts and narratives in our head is bizarre, but many of whom know how many errors Syndey Kojoholowosky made in the 1923 AA Ball game fought between the Poughkeepsie Panderers and the Toledo Tintintabulagtors. Not all knowledge is equally valuable in all things. Some is. But people will have as many types of snow as they require. |
Liliburlero | 14 Apr 2014 12:56 p.m. PST |
Heard by my late mother who taught art history: Michelangelo painted the ceiling of the "Sixteenth Street Chapel". A favorite musical presentation at Christmas is known as "Hannibal's Messiah". Mom said you had to have a sense of humor as a teacher; Dad said he'd like to see the elephants rumbling through the auditorium during the Messiah
|
OSchmidt | 14 Apr 2014 1:39 p.m. PST |
Dear Lilburlero It's been done. In 1946 there was a scheduling conflict at the Metropolitan Opera and no one caught it until opening night. Apparently BOTH Handel's Messiah AND a performance of Verdi's Aida had been rehearsing in separate stages for a debut on the same night unbeknownst to each other. They could not rehearse on the stage they were to perform on because it was under repairs, the repairs having been left to languish during the war. The reviewers said that while the imposition of Handel on top of Verdi during Amneris' aria was a bit jarring, the trumpeting of the elephants in accompiagenato during the Hallelujah Chorus was flawless in its timing and inspired in its execution, and by far made up for any "insousance" of method by the arrangement. All agree the only real mar to the evenings entertainment was the entombment of the choir from the Messiah with Rhadames and Aida at the end of the performance, which unfortunately as the repairs were a rush job, could not be opened after the play and they all perished (harmoniously and melodiously) together, but all agreed that though it was sad, artists must suffer for their art, and the sacrifice was a suitable tribute to the work. The understudies of all were overjoyed. I have a tape of it somewhere around here if you like. |
Zephyr1 | 14 Apr 2014 2:35 p.m. PST |
"1. How many types of snow are there?" I've heard of Columbian and that it's powdery and doesn't melt at room temperature. Seems to show up in Miami a lot
. ;-) |
Rdfraf | 15 Apr 2014 7:01 a.m. PST |
I have a young friend who used to be a model and is now a chemist. She asked me if the movie Lord of the Rings was a true story or not. |
John the Greater | 15 Apr 2014 1:40 p.m. PST |
She asked me if the movie Lord of the Rings was a true story or not. "If you want it to be.." |
AussieAndy | 15 Apr 2014 8:32 p.m. PST |
When travelling in Belgium a few years ago, I bought the Michelin Benelux road atlas at a service station and then managed to convince my wife that there was a country called "Benelux". Cruel, but funny. I got in trouble at school when I corrected my year 8 history teacher, who thought that Charles II and Bonnie Prince Charlie were the same person. A woman that I knew at university, who was training to be a history teacher, told me that she didn't need to know anything about history, she just needed to know the teaching methods. She could read up on the facts the night before class. She is now a union leader. I don't expect people to know everything that I know and many people will know vast amounts about things on which I am completely ignorant. At the same time, wilful ignorance about the matters of common knowledge still annoys me. By that, I mean people who just don't want to know about things outside their own worlds. While the concept of a cultural canon is now regarding as very politically incorrect and out – moded, I still think that there are things that any intelligent person in a society should know, as (a) it is part of our heritage (b) without basic background knowledge, how do you judge and assess the world (c) it makes you a lot more interesting person with which to have a conversation. |