"Big orcs from Khurasan, first look " Topic

Our Orcs from the 15mm Great Enemy range have really taken off lately! As we like to reinforce success, we've asked to have more made.

These are bigger and more powerful orcs -- in the first age some evil armies were led by Orc generals, and these would have a bodyguard unit of the biggest and strongest orcs.

Also for those who game the third age, there are of course the Uruk Hai, who, in the service of Sauron at least, were just huge versions of the normal Orc, not upright walkers, and still hunched over so not quite as tall as men. Grishnakh is the best known of these. These models are perfect for those too. (Some of Saruman's "super-orcs" were virtually man-like and used longbows but these would need to be separately represented.)

By the way, in composing this line, I use Luke Ueda-Sarson's carefully researched DBx lists which are available online and are defended with citations to the books. Those lists are an excellent way to port middle earth directly into your historical rules set.

Here are some of them -- the drummer, three poses of soldiers, and the unit commander. Not shown are the standardbearer or the fourth pose of soldier. Should be available in mid to late summer.

When is your site coming back up?

So very, very, very cool! I was hoping for some more evil humans or a start on the (allegedly) good guys but these guys ROCK!

really like the style of these, depending on the size would make good ogres proxies

Really nice… they remind me of some animated fantasy film which I haven't seen.
I WILL find a place for them in my 6mm fantasy games.

Oh wow, these look really good! You a big fan of the artist Angus Mcbride? He did most of the Middle Earth Roleplaying System covers back in the day, along with a host of other illustrations, and much of your Great Enemy range looks based off of his work (Which makes me exceedingly happy:)

~Jared

Wow! Damnit! Now I am thinking of going completely to 15 mm Fantasy and ditching all my 28mm + fantasy. Between the stuff that Khurasan and Mark Copplestone are putting out this would be a great time to have large battles for much less the cost. Hmmmm…

Who is this Angus McBride of whom you speak?

Great models. I'd have to modify the shields into some much more primitive kludge, but that's me.

I think it was a brilliant idea to prime them all green.

Oh Fantastic! they really do look great, congrats and thanks for making the effort, having said that I have a big Fantasy request….. Can you please please please do a fearsome Owlbear, There really are not any decent ones in 15mm and they are a must for Fantasy, hears hoping (fingers crossed).

Those are super nice!

RebelMike
RebelMinis.com

Emphatz, I already make a grizzligator, does that count?

Awesome orcs!

Can't wait to add these to the rest of your orcy stuff I have. Hopefully these do well enough to get some more done, a big unit of hacking bruiser orcs is always nice – axes, two-handed blades, etc.

-Eli

Is there any chance we can get a size comparison between these, the old orcs and a human figure please?

Those are looking great.

David
splinteredlightminis.com

They do hit the spot!

How tall are they really?

I hope they fit well with the 20mm tall Dark Hold (James Tharpe) figures I got from Rebel Minis:

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Dan
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@Twilight, love that Witch-King, we need a suitable mini!

@Caribe, I have some of those 20mm orcs also and very nice they are. But if I were to guess, they probably won't mix well with these new models – they are very upright like Uruk-Hai while Khurasan's are more squat and hunched over.

Actually no, Uruk hai are not upright, unless you mean the JRR Jackson versions.

Not sure of the canon here …

"These original Uruks were of Sauron's breeding, but Saruman bred his own. Saruman's are shown to have resistance to sunlight and an upright stature, though whether or not these features are unique to his Uruks is open to question. All Uruks were larger and stronger than other breeds of orc and consequently looked down upon and often bullied them."

"The Uruk-hai of Isengard were the tallest of these orcs, and had large hands and thick, straight legs, while the orcs of Mordor are described as bow-legged."

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruk-hai

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Dan

The Isengard great orcs (Uruk-hai as they call themselves, "THE Orcs") are described as being taller and less broad than Mordor great orcs, but the only truly man-tall creatures are in Saruman's army and are said repeatedly to be goblin-men or half-orcs -- interbred, it's said, with humans somehow. These are actually able to pass as men sometimes and are never called orcs or Uruk hai.

It's been some time since I've read the actual book, but I agree and recall Saruman's host at the Hornberg was a potpourri of orcs, Uruks, half-orcs and Dunlending men. But I swear JRR states somewhere that Sauron originally bred the Uruk-hai, not Saruman, so it seems great orcs would be identical.

PJ obviously wanted to make use of all those giant Maori stunt-men, although you do see some 'regular' orcs on screen shooting crossbows and setting up the demolitions.

Thanks Spudeus, yes in one of the appendices Tolkien says that larger, black war orcs do appear first in a Mordor army -- the army that took Osgiliath briefly during the reign of Denethor I (this is long before the events in LotR by the way). He calls them the "race of Uruks," however, not "Uruk hai."

You get the impression that the Uruk hai are the last word on these Black Orc types--not surprising as Saruman was such a tinkerer always trying to make things more efficient. His are the only ones described as using straight swords and longbows -- like men. Tolkien doesn't say so but Grishnakh seems to be a Mordor Uruk -- huge in mass but shorter and crooked legged, still using typical Orc scimitars. The bodyguards of Bolg at the battle of five armies seem to be similar, although those would just have been random orcs of especially great size gathered by the king for a bodyguard.

That's what these are meant to represent -- Mordor "Black Uruks," or bodyguards for Orc warlords in the first through third ages. I'm focusing on models inspired by the evil armies of the first age but maybe someday I'll make later types too.

If that's the case …

The regular tiny crooked-legged Khurasan Orcs could be the regular Mordor or Moria Orcs (Orcs 1.0).

The larger crooked-legged Khurasan ones could be Mordor Uruks (Orcs version 2.0), though there's still no mention of their height.

The 20mm ones from Rebel could be the improved Uruks from Isengard (straight-legged and can see in sunlight). Imagine them as Orcs 3.0, if you will.

After they fight their common foe, they can go ahead and have at each other!

Dan

As you like, but remember the Isengard Uruks were still not as tall as men, and they used straight swords and longbows.

The goblin men (half-orcs) were as tall as men (not taller), and they looked so much like men that they could pass as them, as in the scouring of the shire. Do with this information as you will!

Splintered Light seem to be the current stockists of those Dark Hold figures, Dan –

They're listed as Armoured Ogres link which is about right as they stand 18 – 20mm tall. Nice figures and I've just finished painting mine up. I'll post a photo tomorrow, once I get some daylight to shoot in.

FWIW I agree with Jon's assessment of orcs and uruks, the foot soldiers of the Dark Lord won by mass attacks – individually, they're smaller than men of the west (not necessarily weaker).

I think that these Orcs are excellent and the look – and research behind them – is superb.

Well done. First rate.

John T

Davebill,

Yes. Please post photos of how yours turned out!

I'm going to paint mine in dark and dirty shades similar to what Angus McBride used here:

I still think the segmented armor and helmets of the ones sculpted by the late James Tharpe (Dark Hold, Rebel Minis – now by Splintered Light) truly capture that McBride look, specially these 5 poses:

I'll just use mine as REALLY well-fed Uruks. :)

Dan
PS. The segmented armor reminds me of the V. Checa illustrations of Attila and his Huns:
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caribe is a man on a mission!!! he's doing everything he can to sell those 20mm orcs in this thread about khurasans. lol!

LOL

Not at all. I'm just showing how the 20mm ones I bought long ago can be augmented by the new Khurasan ones.

If anything, I'm all for getting the Khurasan ones. I think they mix quite well, despite what some here seem to think. I'm focusing more on the compatible "McBride" armor and helmet styles, but some here are more concerned about the slight height difference and on whether the legs are crooked enough.

I think they could all be painted, just as pictured in the McBride illustrations, and few people if any would notice any of those differences. At least not enough to object mixing them. If human soldiers aren't all exactly the same height, why should Uruks/Orcs.

And, if those height and leg differences continue to be too noticeable, then just explain it off as Uruks from different origins.

Dan
PS. Seriously, you can't really say I was trying to get other people to buy the 20mm ones if I didn't even know who was selling them now in recent years, right? I even thought that Rebel had simply discontinued them forever. :)

Here are the four trooper poses. The only remaining pose not previewed so far is the standardbearer and I'll dig up a photo of him when yahoo mail is cooperating….

C. Caribe – obviously we won't know until the new orcs are in hand, but my point was that it probably won't be a 'slight' height difference. Prepare to be shocked! ;)

And here's the standardbearer, the seventh pose in the set (the one in the middle, of course!):

Excellent as always, Khurasan (but I think you're teasing us – who's the cool mindflayer on the left?)

What's that? Oh, you mean the Cthulhu wizard?

cthulu wizard!!! and look thats also not a skeleton warrior thats a "supermodel with sword!"

what's a space demon anyway????

The close-ups of the large Orcs are much more interesting and I'm beginning to seriously consider these to add to my Orc band.

I'm curious as to why you opted for heater, or flat iron, style shields for these Orcs over the more usual round shields? Though, having said this, I notice that the smaller Orcs carry lozenge or asymmetrical shields, though these are rather hard to make out in the photos on the website. I must admit that I love the waisted shields the Easterlings carry – rather unusual and really neat.

And I'm looking forward to the release of the Cthulhu Wizard, too :)

Now that Khurasan's webstore is open again, I felt it more appropriate to continue the ogre discussion in a separate thread.

Oh wow, Cthulu Wizard, Standard Bearer and Skeleton are all awesome!

Space demons are terrifying creatures!

yes they are, i just was saying that you give other names to things……..

Are these almost available?
I'm building out my fantasy armies now and holding a spot open for these beauties.

I've written the caster to see where they are in the process. No word back yet.

They look great. Looking forward to them.

I am looking at using some of these for 10mm LoTR Olog-Hai

Adrian

Any update on when these will be ready?

Mr Khurasan I love the Orcs im just thinking are u planning to make some humans or elves to fight them….Would be nice to see how sculptor of this orcs will make for example Gondodor;) troopers.Love this orcs and will get asap

Any update on when these will be ready?

I just got the painting samples and will be sending them off to the painter tomorrow. That usually means the production castings should be in within the month.

I keep putting off ordering orcs waiting on these to come out. I need a Bolg and his body guard.