"Nato BS alert" Topic

SHAPE is issuing press releases detailing Russian military build up near Ukraine. They are using DigitalGlobe imagery of Airbases and army camps crammed full of planes and vehicles purporting to be proof of recent build up (for example "March 22d 2014 satellite pic of Primorko-Akhtarsk Air Base")
However…
If you look on Google maps of images taken some time (Years?) ago you will notice a shed load of SU27/30 Flankers and SU25 Frogfoots at the same base. A similar issue arises with the pic of Yeysk airbase with a single A50 parked up. Google shows 4 SU24 Fencer, plus other possibly maritime aircraft.
Good grief! Ivan has GOT to put his toys somewhere. Just take a flying visit on Google to Russia's airbases many of which are quite 'near' Ukraine, and you will see lots aircraft parked up. If it's an airbase it has planes!.
Look at the google of Morozovsk there are shedloads of somethings (I can't tell, perhaps SU24) a few years old but only 600 K from Kiev.
The suggestion being of course that having aircraft parked up is sinister.
Whats Ivan to do? He doesn't fly the s!

wagging the dog…

Yeah, I mean it isn't like they didn't just roll over another part of the country and take things be force…

Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan.

NATO continues to try its encirclement of Russia but is failing. Ukraine largely wanted nothing to do with the sinking E.U. mess but the bureaucrats and bankers couldn't have that. I'm supporting Putin here. The more violent and sinister NATO becomes, the more people are pushed to opposing corners.

Russian defence ministry says that the airplanes pictures are from August, 2013. I also have some doubts that these pics are really depicting current situation, as the grass is too uniform and green for our late spring – we had snow just last week…

"The more violent and sinister NATO becomes, the more people are pushed to opposing corners.'

Russia invades Ukraine and NATO is violent and sinister?

Don't bother, Dn Jackson, you can tell its a useless subject to breach.

Im sure its all just a case of NATO crying wolf. Its not like Russia would invade another, smaller country or occupy someone elses territory…nothing to see here, move along…

well, Guardian is a renowned Russian haters, but look what they're saying on the subject…

<< News of a Russian arms buildup next to Ukraine is part of the propaganda war >>

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"NATO continues to try its encirclement of Russia but is failing".

Hard to do that when a lot of its countries don't even have any main battle tanks anymore. See my previous posting here on TMP about that, under Modern Discussions – supposedly, many nations have sold off, or totally (almost totally) scrapped theirs.

Others, that still have a few, only have them because they can't afford the fees for the scrapping process, let alone the fuel to operate them.

Sad………..

"Im sure its all just a case of NATO crying wolf. Its not like Russia would invade another, smaller country or occupy someone elses territory…nothing to see here, move along…".

Exactly, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, the Baltic States, Ukraine, Germany, Finland, Afghanistan, the other 'stans, etc., all have nothing to fear, since those very nice, hard vodka-drinking tourists in heavy armored vehicles are just going out for a drive to celebrate Spring Break, and may get lost, because they probably don't have GPS, or are too inebriated to use it properly, so may "accidentally" stray over a national border, or three.

If men in military uniform fall out of the sky onto your country, its just so they can maintain their required parachute jump certifications, too.

Tovarisch!

The Cold War returns …

The more violent and sinister NATO becomes

LOL yes, fear the dreaded Dutch air force!

(No offense, dear Netherlands, but I don't think you're planning a Greater Holland campaign)

The Cold War Part Deux- just like the bad Charlie Sheen movie low budget, low brow with fake equipment. I will wait for it to come out on NETFLIX.

Barin, you are wrong the guardian (granuad!) are very pro Russia and anti West!

As for the build up, it is very difficult to say that an airfield is very busy unless one has been looking at it for some time and have access to collateral.

As for the ground troops, some are parked in admin lines others look to be either preparing to move or just arrived. But again without seeing where they have come from and access to collateral I would not like to make a positive call other than the type of units.

In many ways Crimea was Putin's Kosovo with a majority vote to break away and indeed similar to the Falklands referendum although the latter chose to stay!

Not our problem although those who are on a higher pay scale may have access to far more intelligence (probably less in the west thanks to snowdon) – Life is a big game!

Tally Ho!

I don't think the Grauniad is at all pro-Russia, having read it's coverage of Syria, Sochi and the Ukraine.

Hmm…just read anything that Luke Harding writes about Russia and you'll see what is Guardian's stance on the country. They might criticize USA too, but it doesn't make them pro-Russian really…

I've heard about Amsterdam, but a micro-drone with a dildo attached to the nose is beyond what I expected …

I commented elsewhere that for a big buildup, it didn't seem to be much more than a squadron of fighters and, considering they were [allegedly] conducting exercises in the area there didn't seem to be a massive amount of troops.

Lots of aircraft parked on a military airfield is unusual, even for the modern Russians. They have been downsizing a lot since the collapse of the SU too. A few months ago, I was doing some research on Google Earth of the area around Kursk and found 2 military airfields that piqued my curiosity. Close inspection showed the scattered revetments for at least a regiment of fighters/attack planes on each, but they were all empty. I did not find a single fixed wing aircraft on one field and only 6 on the other. Those 6 were parked close together facing each other, obviously in storage.

Gosh I can hear hearts a beating, all a flutter for their beaus. The title says it all. J;D very John Wayne LOL here. Now I never saw that Dutch porn movie using that flying dildo drone harhar this is beyond funny, you got to hand it to the Dutch about there make love not wa,r arsenal 8_D Cheers all thanks for the larfs, happy gaming

Just Googled maps of US military bases all over the world and compared that to maps of Russian military bases. Also Googled all the bases in Texas, next to Mexican border. Just saying…

If they are doing the imagery analysis correctly, they will compare recent photos with historical ones to find the changes. My bet is that the news agencies see the photos with the aircraft and spin them as examples.

Hmmm, another non minis thread.

"(No offense, dear Netherlands, but I don't think you're planning a Greater Holland campaign)"

Their chief weapon: surprise.

IGWARG,

That was the joke in the 1980's-1990's that with all the bases in South Texas, one would have to be awfully ambitious to militarily invade from the South. Getting into fez territory about the real invasion.

Can anyone tell me what scale this invasion will be on? I'd like to paint up a few things.

They do not need to invade, just watch as pro-Russian demonstrators spontaneously assault government buildings using stun grenades they just happen to find lying around!

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This type of scenario would be a skirmish, obviously, with a variety of rules covering such actions. You might have a 'discover/conceal the identity of the attackers sub-plot.

I highly doubt the US or anyone else in NATO, get involved if the real shooting starts … But for gaming purpose … go crazy ! 1st CAV, 101, 82d, a MARDIV in the first wave rolling thru the Ukraine to stop the Russkie flood of AFVs and Grunts …

6mm will probably be best, unless you have a few acres, and very deep pockets to go with a larger scale, since they'll need lots of troops and armor to hold SE Ukraine.

For smaller skirmishes, 15mm seems like a good option.

"I highly doubt"

When did people start raising the stakes in the doubt field? Is plain old doubt out of the window?

It depends on your point of view Chortle … Of course I'm talking from a US or possible NATO involvement standpoint … But you can speak to the probability of Bangladesh
involvement … which based on the past, I find "highly doubtful" … But feel free to say otherwise … However, for the exercise in language, let's say I doubt I will go out with a female aerobics instuctor at my gym … I highly doubt I'll go out with a movie or TV actress like Sandra Bullock or Sofia Vergara … but feel free to debate that if you wish …

Cold Steel, there's a ridiculous amount of hardware lying around in the former USSR. You can't hardly sneeze without stumbling onto an airbase full of Backfires. I'm not joking. How much of it is operational? Hard to tell. Satellite imagery often doesn't jibe with the written 'truth', and I suspect that there's plenty of TDY to shake things up.

Interesting times, indeed.

Cold Steel, there's a ridiculous amount of hardware lying around in the former USSR. You can't hardly sneeze without stumbling onto an airbase full of Backfires. I'm not joking. How much of it is operational? Hard to tell. Satellite imagery often doesn't jibe with the written 'truth', and I suspect that there's plenty of TDY to shake things up.

Interesting times, indeed.

"I highly doubt the US or anyone else in NATO, get involved if the real shooting starts"

I don't feel like going to war for western Europe. In fact, I think a Ukrainian/Russian war might send exactly the kind of message that Mrs. Merkel needs to hear.

Yeah, the Americans have been footing the bill for much of Europe's troubles for a long time.

As an American president rebutted DeGaull's demand to remove all American servicemen from France: "Shall we start with the 65,000 American servicemen in the various military cemeteries?"

I just wish that you damn Europeans would quit dragging us into the fight!

It's you that keeps getting in ships and going elsewhere :-P

In the old days of the Cold War, some countries which were in the middle (Austria, Finland, and even Sweden) had enough good sense to stay very neutral.

Now all this is forgotten, and some politicians have believed that Ukraine could talk about joining NATO and the EU without any objection from Russia.

I'm not supporting Putin in any way; but Ukraine could have been a friendly place between the EU and Russia, and instead it's become a terrible mess which will create a divide for many years.

Recent research here in Sweden has shown that the (in)famous Swedish neutrality was just a cover for an extensive but secret cooperation with Nato. Still a very sensitive issue since the ruling Social Democratic party not only kept the cooperation a secret from the public but also kept it a secret even many of it's most senior politicians. (The left wing of the party being rather anti-Nato at the time)

As for Finland the history behind the term "Finlandization" shows how neutrality in many cases goes hand in hand with appeasement and self-censorship when you have a non-democratic superpower as your next door neighbour.