swammeyjoe | 10 Apr 2014 2:41 p.m. PST |
Hey all, Need help trying to pick/find a set of rules I like. My ideal scale is each side is a division (around 90 stands), with 2-4 brigades each with 2-5 regiments. The base unit would be a regiment of 4 or 6 stands. I'd prefer if it could also handle smaller games, where each player controls a single brigade with assorted supports, say about 30 stands per player, and have decent tactical choices even at that scale. I'd like it to have a decent command and control system or some form of general's characteristics. I picked up Regimental Fire and Fury and found that it was not for me. I -hate- fiddly systems (especially where you have to count the number of figures in a unit) or ones that require protractors or laser pointers. I'd prefer the emphasis to be on fast playing, fun rules rather than extreme historical accuracy. I've heard good things about Black Powder, but it seems to be designed for games larger than my 'average' size game. Could it handle the smaller, 30 stand game and still give a fun time? Any and all suggestions are welcome. |
The Tin Dictator | 10 Apr 2014 2:45 p.m. PST |
Sounds like Johnny Reb II would work. |
Major Mike | 10 Apr 2014 2:49 p.m. PST |
There is "A Union So Tested" part of the "Look Sarge, No Charts" game system. |
45thdiv | 10 Apr 2014 3:04 p.m. PST |
But Johnny Reb II and III are just as bad, if not worse, for chart look up. Oh it is painfully frustrating. I like Black Powder and I play the same level you are looking for. I have not tried Longstreet, but they may be something to look at. Anyone local near who who plays ACW? |
swammeyjoe | 10 Apr 2014 3:29 p.m. PST |
Yeah from looking up reviews Johnny Reb doesn't seem like my cup of tea. The people around me play RF&F mostly, but I move around a lot and tend to end up buying both sides of whatever era I'm interested in so I can put on games or play solo. |
Who asked this joker | 10 Apr 2014 3:45 p.m. PST |
Sounds like Johnny Reb II would work. You missed the part where the OP said he hates fiddly systems. Try freewargamesrules.co.uk Plenty of freebies there. |
Larry Gettysburg Soldiers | 10 Apr 2014 5:04 p.m. PST |
Please pardon the shameless self-promotion
our Gettysburg Soldiers ACW Rules are what you're looking for. Introduction on our Forum: link Chatter about us on TMP: TMP link TMP link |
GGouveia | 10 Apr 2014 5:13 p.m. PST |
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Maddaz111 | 10 Apr 2014 5:18 p.m. PST |
Try die fighting. I have only used it for the early period (it covers 200 years in three fully defined periods) and it produces a cracking game that has detail enough, but is also a game where sound tactics usually pay dividends. I am wondering if I should do Napoleonic using the rules
but I am loathe to start naps again. |
McWong73 | 10 Apr 2014 5:53 p.m. PST |
You can down scale black powder to what you're looking to do without any problems. |
Tin Soldier Man | 10 Apr 2014 6:18 p.m. PST |
"90 stands" I have no idea what that means. Can you elaborate? |
Bede19025 | 10 Apr 2014 6:19 p.m. PST |
I picked up Regimental Fire and Fury and found that it was not for me. I -hate- fiddly systems (especially where you have to count the number of figures in a unit) You don't count figures in RF&F. You count bases. The number of figures on the base is irrelevant. |
Grelber | 10 Apr 2014 6:21 p.m. PST |
Call to the Colors is free, but you do have to join their Yahoo group toget a copy. I believe it uses the same basing as Johnny Reb. link Grelber |
GamesPoet | 10 Apr 2014 7:46 p.m. PST |
"Longstreet" and "Gettysburg Soldiers" might both work for what has been described, as could "They Couldn't Hit A Elephant". |
cavcrazy | 10 Apr 2014 8:11 p.m. PST |
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GROSSMAN | 10 Apr 2014 10:08 p.m. PST |
If you think F&F was fiddly, I am not sure there is much hope for you
While I don't play ACW anymore, I thought is was the most streamlined powder game I had ever played. Good luck in your search. |
GROSSMAN | 10 Apr 2014 10:09 p.m. PST |
Try carnage & Glory computer moderated rules. |
Dexter Ward | 11 Apr 2014 4:12 a.m. PST |
They Couldn't Hit An Elephant might fit the bill. The mechanisms are pretty streamlined. Longstreet is good, but the forces you are talking about would be at the upper end of the size it can handle. |
trailape | 11 Apr 2014 5:12 a.m. PST |
Longstreet is a fantastic set of rules, but at the scale you're looking at you'd need to play it with about 4 to 6 players. It's more a 'Each player commands a Brigade' kinda system. Try TFLs 'They Couldn't Hit an Elephant'. |
Frederick | 11 Apr 2014 5:29 a.m. PST |
I like Fire & Fury (the original) but if you didn't like Regimental F & F then Black Powder is a good "not too fiddly" rule set |
corporalpat | 11 Apr 2014 6:24 a.m. PST |
Second On to Richmond. Have not tried "They Couldn't hit an Elephant", but it seems to have merit. |
Dobber | 11 Apr 2014 6:31 a.m. PST |
what you have described as a division size game is the average of what my group plays, if not on the bigger side of games, with Black Powder. I would recommend looking up "contemptible little wargames club" on google, they have some ACW and Nappie specific mods for Black Powder that are quite good. I would at least suggest allowing players to attempt to save a disorder, using a different colored dice, ect. also, it does not care about the size of your units. if you want, one base can be a regiment and the game works. so if you use a 4 base regiment, you can get 11 regiments per side with your 90 stands. Gettysburg Soldiers is a great rule set as well. It is very well laid out, very simple, and has the best book format ever. also cheap. stuff dies quite quickly. there is a set called Guns at Gettysburg that is pretty much a fleshed out version of gettysburg soldiers, if you replace the word "figure" with the word "stand". I thought Longstreet was OK
the cards and campaign stuff was great, but the rules for the tabletop game are meh, imho. I own every rule set mentioned here, and some others. If you are interested in any in particular, I can write you a impartial review of their mechanisms. actually i don't own johnny reb, it was the only set i disliked enough to not buy. ~Joe |
davbenbak | 11 Apr 2014 7:11 a.m. PST |
I would second the suggestion for Carnage & Glory II. They have a very active yahoo site. It is not fiddely. The computer does most of the work. The only charts are for movement distances and firing ranges. I love it since it allows players to concentrate on tactics not dice modifiers. You can base any way you want (though there are historical suggestions) and there is no figure removal. |
optional field | 11 Apr 2014 9:08 p.m. PST |
[q] But Johnny Reb II and III are just as bad, if not worse, for chart look up. Oh it is painfully frustrating. [/q] Have you considered making a players handbook? Just copy (or scan) the charts from the book and put them into a stapled booklet. It will make any game eminently more playable. |
CATenWolde | 12 Apr 2014 5:25 a.m. PST |
We had great success with Crusader Games "Rank & File" rules, along with the ACW supplement. We specifically used it as a simpler alternative to RF&F, so it might be a good fit for you too, and the pdf's are fairly inexpensive. Cheers, Christopher |
ACW Gamer | 12 Apr 2014 6:55 a.m. PST |
"has the best book format ever." What is the format like? |
swammeyjoe | 12 Apr 2014 1:47 p.m. PST |
@Tin Soldier Man, by 'stands' I meant a base with multiple figures on it. The stands I have are 1" by 3/4" and hold 3 infantry figures. Combine them into units to form regiemnts, etc. @Bede, that is true, I will give RF&F another read through and give it a game, at least, before passing full judgement on it. The need for labels turned me off from it at first glance, as did the specific figure scale (I've played mostly Ancients and Microarmor, where these things are less common, so it might just be a culture shock thing), which seems to mean you need far larger units than I hoped to play with. Plus once you start specifying specific scales I've found it's easy to get carried away and trying to set accurate ground scales at which point things can get ridiculous. My ideal basic unit would be a regiment of either 12 or 18 figures (4 or 6 bases). RF&F seems more along the 27 to 30 figure average. I picked up Black Powder at my local shop, as it seems to have the somewhat relaxed tone I enjoy in my rulesets (DBA excluded, hah). I enjoy the Warmaster derivatives (CWC mostly) so it seems like something I'd enjoy. And from what I've read about Rank & File it will also fit the bill. I'll probably pick up the PDF (unless someone knows a place selling the actual book online) and go print it out. Thanks again for all the suggestions folks! |
CATenWolde | 12 Apr 2014 2:27 p.m. PST |
You can play RF&F with half the number of stands suggested. They are lined up in a second rank anyway, so it doesn't effect frontage, and you can just use a marker to mark the first hit and remove a stand on the second. |
Last Hussar | 12 Apr 2014 3:39 p.m. PST |
Black Powder. I'm a big fan of Couldn' hit an Elephant by TFL, but that may be a bit fiddly – BP is nice and straight forward. Don't be put off by people who dismiss it as "Just a Toolbox" – you can play right out the book, but after a couple of games you can easily tweak it to match your understanding. |
Dobber | 13 Apr 2014 6:25 p.m. PST |
Ghots6, its a spiral bound booklet that it just as wide as a normal book, but about 6" tall so it sits in the back areas of the table quite nicely. also, all the pages are heavy card stock. ~Joe |