"Hidden troops" Topic

As a Napoleonic wargamer I'm interested in any rule which helps to my games.
Here I found this quite interesting wargame (not this period) where the author point the hidden troops in his pictures.
But, how you point in the battlefield your hidden troops?
Paper is my first option, but I guess there are much better ones.
So, I ask for help in this matter to my fellow members.

By the way , hope you enjoyed this good game here.
link

Many thanks in advance for your guidance.

Amicalement
Armand

Funnily enough I was thinking about the same problem last night having been reading about St Cyr using terrain to his advantage during his time with the Army of the Rhine.

Definitely one to think about.

Thank you, as always for a great find cousin.

It would seem that there has to be three issues dealt with in any hidden movement mechanic:

1. How to denote where the troops are, so the hiding player can't fudge to his advantage.
2. How to allow for hidden movement and formations with the same need for recording in #1. and,
3. How to determine 'discovery.'

I have been Tangoed again !

It helped that I was both umpire and defender – to play fair I mapped out the defenders positions before my opponents arrived. They had no knowledge of what might be in front of them but their objectives were simple get across the table.

All the defenders were in ambush mode but once they fired or moved the figures were placed on the table. Right to the end they were convinced that I had other forces hidden.

They were not even told if they outnumbered the defenders – it made for some interesting play.

Forward going I will photo the battlefield in advance and mark up on a print where troops are – its a lot quicker than drawing maps.

Cheers guys

Many thanks for your guidance boys.
Dear Eric, your terrain is superb!
Congrats!.
And I enjoyed the wargame a lot!. (smile).

Amicalement
Armand

Cheers Armand

It is appreciated…

Why not put figures on the table plus many other dummy figures. Use a recce/recon mechanism to determine if there really are troops present.

I've used campo painted pennies with a number on the underneath side to represent possible and real units. Somehow MikedaMug's idea of using dummy figures (plus a penny real-or-not marker) sounds like an improvement. In WWII an phony "88" ATG with a marker would mess with a player's mind more than just a campo penny. IT would also give some intelligence of what might be there and represent the size of the potential unit emplacement. Imagine a player getting spooked by a "Pak front?" that was nothing or two peasant wagons.

I am using a networked computer system to handle that. (taken a while to do, but its there now – yay !)

Each player can see their own units on their own screen, and issue orders to their troops.

The computer works out who is where, does any movement according to orders and terrain, and then determines any new discoveries. It then instructs the players to place units that are newly spotted onto the tabletop.

Using an impartial computer umpire for this has its plusses and minuses for sure. (Lot more work to setup, but a very cool payoff). End result provides a lot more suspense than having dummy blinds on the table.

Currently working on an AI plugin, so that you can game solo against an unknown deployment of the enemy. That should be fun.

Do you bother with a table and minis?

Do you bother with a table and minis?

?? Of course ?? Its a miniatures game afterall. The computer is not a substitute for a tabletop, or for miniatures … its just a calculation and bookkeeping aide.

I cant see any useful way of using blinds to mark the enemy positions in a solo game, and still have any sense of suspense left. How else would make the enemy move around and try to deceive and out-play you in an intelligent way ?

Blinds work OK up to a point in a 2 player game, but its still not quite like double-blind play where you have a real umpire. Having a computer handle that allows 2 friends to play against each other as if there was a real umpire present.

Blinds work OK up to a point in a 2 player game, but its still not quite like double-blind play where you have a real umpire. Having a computer handle that allows 2 friends to play against each other as if there was a real umpire present.

Ah, I'd missed that you were essentially using the computer as your umpire.

I like the hidden-unit mechanics from Infinity, personally, though I think you'd need to use a lot more markers in non-scifi gaming. The hidden-unit mechanic is that camouflaged unit are represented by a marker the size of a standard infantry base, and as soon as the marker does something that would make a model roll dice, the miniature represented by the marker is placed on the table. Opponents can attempt to discover a marker, but Discovery is one of your two combat actions for that activation. You can Discover+Shoot, going on to shoot assuming that your Discover attempt is successful. The big advantage of units in camo is that they get to shoot first during their active turn, the target gets to shoot back if it survives.

Of course, Infinity assumes that there are so many recon units both players can see almost everything on the table as soon as it twitches, with reconnaissance assets belonging to both sides so extensive that they block out the sun. (Infinity player: "Good, then we will fight in the shade!)

I think for older periods, you should have generic "there's something here" markers (I like big-ish dust clouds instead of a simple piece of paper, makes the table look nicer), and maybe a "Tactical Intelligence" system where a player gets more information about what kind of unit the marker represents as his forces get closer to the marker. "My light cav are 32 inches away from that big dust cloud in the valley, at this distance they'd be able to see sunlight glinting off of horse-tack" (ie, can tell if the unit is cavalry or maybe artillery, as opposed to Infantry), so the completely-generic unit blind is replaced with a "lots of horses here" dust cloud.

The problem with Tactical Intelligence rules is that they can get very complicated *very* quickly. Especially when you have to send a body back to the boss to tell the General what you've found!

I played a few games of Bolt Action using a different hidden set up rule. The hidden units are kept off the table and are simply given a Down order, like a unit in reserve or in outflanking. When a player wants to deploy the unit he must do so between turns. Placing the unit on the table anywhere except the opponents deployment zone and at least 12" from any enemy units. Order dice are then drawn as usual. This gives the possibility that the hidden unit can act first and ambush the target but it is not a given due to the way units are activated. The reverse is just as likely, that the enemy spots the ambush and acts first. It's a gamble, and it requires no paperwork, tracking or umpire.

Obviously this may not work with other systems.