"WSS Rule decision help" Topic

Just got into the WSS period and need some help deciding on which rules to use, can't make my mind up I have Maurice, Polemos, Lace wars not really taken with any of them

The main problem is I already have a pile of stuff based, Pendraken 10mm figures, infantry and cavalry on 30mmx30mm bases and artillery on 40mmx40mm bases and definitely don't want to try re-basing the figures, tried before and it was a disaster ruined three stands of figures.

My infantry consist of 5 bases per unit and the cavalry 3 bases per unit, the artillery is the usual one model gun representing x amount of guns.

Looking for rules with stand removal rather than figure removal, not chart or paperwork heavy, also units being a decent size not one or two bases per unit as some seem to be.

any help appreciated

I had the same dilemma, went with Black Powder in the end with a few minor modifications. Basing isn't an issue and there is little record keeping.

Try die fighting.

Clever mechanisms, no base removal, suitable for medium sized games, quite quick, no uber unit, no rebasing.

Playable once armies created from a large print two sided fast play sheet.

And, because most of the mechanisms are elegant, it's possible to put modifications in to accommodate,historical events (such as Dutch reluctance to give battle according to wishes of Marlborough.

@ bruntonboy

what are the mods you made to BP for the WSS

Field of Battle might suit you. Four stand units but you can make 'em bigger. No paper work and a simple and elegant system with stand removal. It is card driven though if that's an issue for you.

You might try Black Powder with the LAOK supplement….works well for me

Mainly we wanted to slow down the pace of any infantry attacks- in BP there can be some really fast attacks which isn't really appropriate for the early 18th century. We simply limited shooting to only those units that have moved once in their turn. Otherwise somebody could rush accross the table and unleash a volley without reply. We have used the mods in "Last Argument of Kings" supplement to represent platoon firing but we have simply gone back to allowing those troops who fire thus to have the "first fire" rule and nobody else does. Likewise with cavalry if you think Marlborough's horse had the edge we can give them the +1 Heavy cavalry bonus. BP is really quite easy to modify to fit your own perception of what a period is all about. We aslo insist that there isn't any massed artillery batteries unless (like Malplaquet) in defences. I tend to the view that there really wasn't that much difference between armies but the major difference was generalship, hence I tend to down play the effects of platoon firing, battalion guns and charging cavalry. Other may well differ of course. Using B for us has made what can be a fairly staid and predictable period a lively fun game

I like Ga Pa. I have some battle reports on my blog:

link

If you are looking for stand removal, try Age of eagles with the Age of Honor expansion. That will cover WSS nicely. link

I have not played but it is similar in many respects to Fire and Fury Brigade level rules.

It has stand removal. The units are probably 6 or bases per unit. The QRS is not too busy. You can see for yourself. PDF link

Hope that helps.

John

There is a very good Volley and Bayonet mod available as well.

Ga Pa is very good.

We mainly use Carnage & Glory II WSS module. Outstanding. Used it a ton at conventions. Everyone always likes it. We have 8-10 players no problem.

Hmmm, no fast infantry attacks in the WSS?

The trouble with the WSS in 'vanilla' rulesets is that basing is a matter of vital importance, the British/Dutch Battalions in 3 deep, against French, a few in 3 deep and more as the war went on but the rest in 5 deep, and then Austrians and Germans in 5 or 6 deep formations for the same numbers in a battalion means the frontages wildly varied.

To fight WSS one of the best ways is to take a WAS or SYW set, and restrict artillery movement greatly, lose light cavalry on the battlefield (unless doing Turkish wars but they really need a dedicated rule set) and free up infantry to move faster (but less cohesively). The lack of cadenced step did not mean they could not do complex manouvers, or that they were harder to move, in fact the opposite was often true.

Wow! No mention of Beneath the Lily Banners v2? You can use BLBv2 for what you have. You do not remove bases until you have lost over 50% of your unit. Since you have a five-base unit, BLB calls for 3 base units, but you can also use four base units. They made an exception to the game charts for that. It comes down to how many figures you have on each base. In BLB they call for 18 figure units. I was doing 4-figure bases that equaled to 12 man units, but kept track of the losses on paper. I just recently did a massive rebase for this system so now I have 6-figure bases, looks really nice. Very easy conversion and an excellent feel of the period. Their rule book is loaded with all kinds of information too.

Good luck!

P.

Beneath the Lily Banners is very good, as is Maurice if you like the slightly RPG elements. Very worthy of a mention too is the Steel, shot and stone rules published in 'The Wargaming Compendium' by the Editor of Miniature Wargames/Battlegames

Welcome to a fascinating period.

I suggest Might and Reason (with the free WSS module). No figure or stand removal. While a brigade consists, in theory, of two bases, it doesn't really matter if you use more. The only set of rules that I have come across that I have found suitable for gaming the big Marlburian battles in a reasonabl eamount of time. We do, however, include our own simple command and control rules in place of the M and R control tests.

Regards

A suggestion if you care to give Maurice another go, is reduce your infantry to 4 bases. That gives a unit in line a frontage of 120mm, which is the same as your 3 base cavalry units. The infantry is the most crucial to have 4 bases as it affects firing but since cavalry don't use guns, this won't have too much impact on gameplay. Anyway, I think Maurice is a great system and that's what I play for this period. The "Honour" (Maurice) forum is pretty helpful too.

thanks for the replies and help me head hurts even more now

i know one thing and that is i do not want to play rules with written orders ever, ever again. it seems that lots and lots of wss rules still require that…..

Does Koenigkrieg work for WSS ?

Last Hussar's Blackpowder mod for WSS is very good

link

Another vote here for beneath the lilly banner. Not too complicated, just right. And fun.

Does Koenigkrieg work for WSS ?

I would think so. You probably want to scale back shooting slightly for rank fire. The command structure would have to be changed but other than that, it's still linear warfare.

I have the original version of Koenig Krieg, and the supplement designed to extend its coverage to Grand Alliance and Marlburian era games.

koenigkrieg! i remember doing some very strange things with prussians in those rules -- shooting and then moving out of range, because the pruss got an extra action ……. :-)

I will second Beneath the Lilly Banner and I also like Carnage and Glory 2! C&G 2 is great for solitare games too IMHO. Really no need to rebase for either.

I own a good majority of these rules, if you are interested in any i can give you a quick review of the mechanisms.
my personal vote is for either black powder with a few mods or, Maurice, or
a free set called "close fire and european order"
~Joe

Thank you Prince Lupus- Just noticed the hits on my stat counter!

no votes for Impetus (Baroque)?

I like GaPa but they are very different with some things 'the wrong way round' vs the majority of rule sets , plus very light / battalion guns are too powerful, more like WW1 machine gun sections.