"Napoleon's Battles "kickstarter"?" Topic

Thoughts?

boardgamestarter.co.uk

Full link, since I was somewhat intrigued by the project.
There is not a lot of information displayed, although there is a short video, which I didn't have time to watch.

link

I'd be interested to know how different the rules are to the first edition of Napoleon's Battles.

Another thought – it's a huge ask expecting somebody to put down £4,700.00 GBP for figures of a quality we don't know, painted to a standard we are unsure of and for a short but extremely expensive holiday.

Seems pretty close to retail, and my quick skim did not show any no UK postage costs.

outside the UK is + £15.00 GBP P&P

I'm going to be the detractor on this one. It's $65 USD+Postage so $90. USD This gets me a bigger book to be sure. But is it really going to play better than my 1st edition set? Probably not. It's just going to add more.

John

I'm so over the Kickstarter, et al craze. Maybe its old school of me to think this, but if your product is worth it, then go out and get it produced and toss it into the market.

Wargames rules are meant to be played, not collected like antiquarian volumes – ideally, one could learn a really good set of rules and never need do more than consult a QRS during a game, so why spend money on an eleborate binding, presentation &c?

I am disappointed that they went this route. And the cost here in the US is ridiculous. I don't want to pay that much to basically fund their mini line. Sucks I have been a fan of the rules since AH. I have to draw the line at $100 USD . The $75 USD for the last edition was really too much.

The book on link project is £40.00 GBP including plastic play aids and UK shipping, international shipping adds £15.00 GBP, so $88.00 USD, each additional book is £35.00 GBP including play aids, but no extra shipping so if a group makes a single purchase for 4 books its £160.00 GBP so $256 USD or $64 USD each.

How is the new 200-page 4th Maréchal Edition of Napoleon's Battles Different?
Yes, the rule book has expanded from the original 150 pages to 200, making it even better value for money. Here are some key features of the new edition:

1. The Preface to the new edition has been written by one of the original authors – Bob Coggins.
2. We have endeavoured to make the layout of the rules simpler by putting each rule within the
Turn Sequence to which it relates.
3. The Standard rules include some changes suggested by players over a number of years, but in
essence these are the same rules that existing players have become familiar with.
4. The Optional rules now include some new ones including special abilities for commanders & units.
5. Tournament rules have been included for those players and clubs who want to be involved;
these include a Scenario Generator for tournaments.
6. Full Army lists are included in the main Rule Book, together with Commander lists.
7. Also within the book are Historical scenarios of famous battles.
8. Finally, we explain how to build armies with our online Army builder at capitangames.com.
Access to this free online Army generator makes it easy to build, save, recall and adjust your
Napoleon's Battles armies from one game to another.

I think Capitan Games should have kept this simple, to avoid the 2nd edition fiasco. Publish the 4th edition without any strings attached. There's enough interest in the game for it to succeed without gamers having to finance more of the company than is necessary.

I think we take the trivial far too seriously sometimes, and at other times we trivialise and ignore the important things.

Redlancer38, could you explain further what you mean by simplify the publication and what strings are attached.

The company invests its own capital, then follows the venture through to completion. It then publishes a properly proof read book. The book goes on the shelves. The public buys the book, (or not). Simple! No strings!

Two new book pledges have been added, one for 4 books and one for 10 books. 10 books to the USA would now cost £310.00 GBP or $496 USD including postage, thats under $50 USD per book. Please be aware that 4th Edition is Hard Back Book with stitched spine and full colour as opposed to 3rd Edition paperback with less pages in B&W for $75 USD

I'm with Coastal2 & Redlancer38 – what happened to companies having the confidence in their products to actually invest the money themselves?

It isn't as though Warmodelling is a new company on the block, or that this is some radical new concept in wargaming:

"2. We have endeavoured to make the layout of the rules simpler by putting each rule within the
Turn Sequence to which it relates.
3. The Standard rules include some changes suggested by players over a number of years, but in
essence these are the same rules that existing players have become familiar with.
4. The Optional rules now include some new ones including special abilities for commanders & units."

So, boiling this down – they've re-edited the rules to make them easier to use, included some "house rules" / addenda suggested by twenty years of consumer playtesting, and added some new (?) optional rules. The rest just sounds like fluff or was already in the original editions – unless you are into tournament gaming.

They say they are producing "finely detailed, all new moulds for the range of figures to complement the rule set" – does this mean Warmodelling are re-sculpting their ranges? Because the figures on the video looked like regular Fantassin figures to me – if Warmodelling are re-sculpting figures then that would be news.

My involvement in the project is, firstly, as Warmodelling's UK distributor. However, I was also asked to act as editor because the final product has to be in reasonable English and Capitan Games (not Warmodelling) felt an English speaker would be better equipped than a Spaniard – however good his English – I admire their confidence :-). The reasons for producing a 4th Edition were mostly to provide European (mostly UK) wargamers with a version of NB that they felt comfortable with but without alienating those (especially in America) who know and love NB.

The most frequent complaint from British and other European gamers was that the layout of the rule book was daunting and over complex. Consequently my main task was to produce something that addressed this, while maintaining something that American gamers would recognise and still be comfortable using. I did this by adhering to the Turn Sequence for all rules and trying to relate each rule to a specific section of the turn sequence to which I felt it belonged.

Also, Capitan Games felt that they should not make wholesale changes to the rules (which they didn't really need anyway) and to limit any such changes as were acceptable to the original authors – which they have done; Bob Coggins was consulted throughout. Anything else would be confined to optional rule suggestions that players could adopt or ignore as they felt inclined. As to whether I have succeeded or not, only time will tell but I sincerely hope so.

It was judged that not every wargamer would own armies suitably based to play the rules and might appreciate the availability of such armies collected in packs with suitable bases included – so the army pack concept was conceived. Many of Warmodelling's existing moulds can not be used to produce the figures required and it was decided to produce as many new moulds as necessary to meet the needs of the packs. The funding of such new moulds were the main reason for opting for crowd funding. The guys who run Capitan (and me, for that matter) are basically wargamers with day jobs who have run a reasonably successful wargames business over the past few years and who saw an opportunity to refresh a well-liked and much-played rule set. They don't enjoy the sort of wealth that would have enabled them to do this without crowd funding in a reasonable time.

This doesn't betoken a lack of confidence or willingness to invest but represents cold, hard economic reality.

The production qualities being brought to the publication of the 4th edition rule book are streets ahead of those seen in the third edition and, I believe, fully justify the price being asked.

By the way, the figures shown in the video were, indeed, from the existing Warmodelling range – the new moulds have not yet been produced and so figures from them were not available but, again in my view, Warmodelling's standard range is one of the best on the market and no apology for using them is required. Warmodelling regularly resculpt figures, refresh existing moulds and introduce new ones to the range: I was caught out a while back when a customer ordered some Baden figures which I hadn't realised had been introduced.

If anyone has any specific questions to ask about the project, I'd be happy to answer but a good idea might be to visit the Napoleon's Battles Yahoo forum at napsbattles@yahoogroups.com.

Cheers,

Mike Oliver