Dr Mathias | 03 Apr 2014 1:52 p.m. PST |
Hello, I asked a question about AWI terrain a couple months back, and now I have a plethora of painted trees and fences, plus a barn, house, and church. I have a box of Perry British already, and the Perry Continentals on the way. Does anyone have any advice or recommendations on two opposing regiments to start with? Also good battles or skirmishes to look at in more detail that don't require a bunch of different regiments to look 'viable'? I don't yet have a ruleset picked, but I do know that I'm basing them individually for now. So far my reading on the conflict has been pretty light and I feel overwhelmed with choices. Thanks in advance! |
MajorB | 03 Apr 2014 2:17 p.m. PST |
Does anyone have any advice or recommendations on two opposing regiments to start with? persoanlly, I'd just go with generic figures, rather than specific regiments. I don't yet have a ruleset picked, but I do know that I'm basing them individually for now. Muskets and Tomahawks then. Covers both the FIW and the AWI. |
FlyXwire | 03 Apr 2014 3:04 p.m. PST |
I don't think you could go wrong in painting up your first British regiment as the 33rd Foot. For the Continentals, the 1st Maryland would be a good choice. These regiments fought throughout the war, in both the Northern and Southern theaters of operations. |
Recovered 1AO | 03 Apr 2014 3:56 p.m. PST |
Loyalist versus Patriot Militia. No standardization, heartfelt enmity, and lots of motivation. Gracias, Glenn |
Dr Mathias | 03 Apr 2014 4:53 p.m. PST |
Thank you gentlemen. 33rd had red facings? That's interesting, probably about as generic British as it gets! Sounds like a good choice to start. Maryland looks good, I like the 1779 uniform. Any other suggestions welcome, and a sincere thank you from an AWI newbie. I'll have to do some investigation into Loyalist uniforms, I know nothing about that. |
Ashokmarine | 03 Apr 2014 5:25 p.m. PST |
I doing a skirmish project in the Southern theatre. The suggestion above are good. I plan on using "this very ground " rules set |
Axebreaker | 03 Apr 2014 5:32 p.m. PST |
Just generic forces would work just fine if your doing skirmish, but flyXwire's suggestion is quite good as both were major players. I recommend visiting Giles superb blog as he has quite a few regiments on display and most the major ones to help you with deciding what to do. gilesallison.blogspot.de Skirmish Rules: Muskets and Tomahawks, Sharpe's Practice variant and Smooth & Rifled would work. Christopher |
John the OFM | 03 Apr 2014 5:57 p.m. PST |
If you can get it, WRG's "Fire and Steel" gives a good game, if each "faction" has 8-10 figures. It has all the bells and whistles that gamers love, but are not necessarily "realistic". Like tap loading, opportunity fire, wounds, etc. The 33rd Foot and 1st Maryland were more "line" regiments, rather than pure skirmish units. I am afraid that line regiments would not give the real flavor of an AWI skirmish battle. I would go with Hessian (or Brunswick) jaegers as an almost pure skirmish unit. Go to the Saratoga campaign and pair them against Dearborn's rifles and or LI. Add Indians to the Hessians, or Loyalist "marksman". Perry's Stockbridge Indians are good here, as both British and American Indians. You can also use Jaegers versus militia on Long Island or ew Jersey. Fischer's "Washington's Crossing" is about much more than the Trenton battle. It's chock full of ideas for petit guerre and foraging scenarios. In the South, you can get mileage out of the same jaegers, Perry Lee's Legion, and various hunting shirt or militia types. |
vtsaogames | 03 Apr 2014 7:49 p.m. PST |
Jagers might also pair with British Light infantry. In the south Kirkwood's Delaware company also was used as light infantry at times. By then they were in hunting shirts and cocked hats, the old blue uniforms having rotted away. |
cavcrazy | 03 Apr 2014 8:27 p.m. PST |
You have to start with American militia against the British flank companies, Lexington and Concord , and the march back to Boston
.Now that is a skirmish game
..even when the line units show up in support, still a great skirmish game! |
John the OFM | 03 Apr 2014 9:42 p.m. PST |
Not only that, but the LI and grenadiers at Lexington and Concord were not really all that good. They were rusty and inexperienced. Look at their behavior and performance. There were more veterans of the FIW among the Minutemen then there were among the lobsters! Some like to point out how few British the minutemen actually hit for as many shots they fired. The exact same thing can be said about the British marksmanship then! Of course the grenadiers and LI got MUCH better later. |
Gnu2000 | 04 Apr 2014 2:35 a.m. PST |
63 Foot in the South. They spent some time as mounted infantry alongside Tarleton's cavalry. Opposition could include lots of militia, riflemen and lees legion or the Delaware light infantry. Have a look at Blackstocks as an example. |
MajorB | 04 Apr 2014 2:52 a.m. PST |
33rd had red facings? That's interesting, probably about as generic British as it gets! Um
no. The 33rd were the ONLY British unit in the American Revolution that had red facings. |
Supercilius Maximus | 04 Apr 2014 3:25 a.m. PST |
Surprised nobody's mentioned the Queen's Rangers as the ultimate "petite guerre/kleine krieg" formation (on the Crown side at least). In one unit, that served together the whole time, you get:- - Grenadier company (complete with fur caps) - Light company - Highland company (initially with kilts, later in overalls and acts as a second light company) - 8 battalion companies - a rifle section of 12-16 men (mounted in the South) - an artillery section (1x3pdr and 1xamusette) - a hussar troop - a light dragoon troop (there were two more, but they served away from the main body) All 11 infantry companies were typically around 25-30 all ranks (you could split these into 2 platoons of 12-15 for the M&T ruleset referred to above); all troops of horse about 40-50 all ranks (can be split into four sections). Historically, you can also attach other units, including Hessian jaeger, Loyalist infantry including mounted rifles, companies of the 71st Foot, a mounted company of the 23rd Foot, and even troops of British Legion cavalry and 17th Light Dragoons for Yorktown (and IIRC the raid on Jefferson's place – was it Monticello?). On the other side, you can have Lee's Legion, which was slightly less complex in terms of size and organisation, but can be broken down into sub-units for M&T, and had other units attached from time to time including:- - rifle-armed Virginia militia - Kirkwood's Delaware/Virginia light infantry - mounted partisans There's also interesting potential for confusion as Lee's, the QRs, and the BL cavalry, had similar uniforms around the same period and each impersonated the other at least once during the Southern campaigns. As far as rules go, M&T is the most obvious choice, but if you want something with bigger units/tactical formations and a bit of role-playing (or more use of "leaders"), try Sharp Practice which ahs a number of published scenarios for this type of warfare. |
Gnu2000 | 04 Apr 2014 5:16 a.m. PST |
Hi SM Nice idea to use the QR but the OP has plastic British with plastic continentals to come, so I think he is looking for how best to use them. Cheers |
FlyXwire | 04 Apr 2014 6:31 a.m. PST |
Dr Mathias, if you decide to use M&T as your ruleset, feel free to model your units as line regiments/battalions too. Since I've got a lot of 15mm AWI figs, and so the game units look like they model larger formations, mount my infantry 2 per stand. Nothing changes with the rules system, and we still attrite by stands as if they were individual figures, just the game look changes – and you can scale up your actions accordingly (the desired appearance/scenarios reflecting larger formations).
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epturner | 04 Apr 2014 7:09 a.m. PST |
SuperMax; For Crooked Billet, I painted up about 100 QR in ten man units just for that one action. A bit daft, but it was really neat to see that much Loyalist green on the table top. Eric |
Dr Mathias | 04 Apr 2014 7:21 a.m. PST |
Thanks again for all the suggestions. I do have the two plastic boxes either in hand or on the way so that will be a starting point, but I'm not opposed to getting other figures in the near future. Some less-uniformed types are pretty much mandatory I think. A friend of mine has M&T and we played using his 15mm, it was pretty fun and easy to pick up. Um
no. The 33rd were the ONLY British unit in the American Revolution that had red facings. Sorry, I didn't meant to suggest red facings were common or ubiquitous or anything. Considering the term 'redcoats' is often used for British soldiers, what could be more 'redcoat' than red, with red facings? Thanks again, lots of information to look up! |
PVT641 | 04 Apr 2014 7:45 a.m. PST |
33rd had red facings? That's interesting, probably about as generic British as it gets! Um
no. The 33rd were the ONLY British unit in the American Revolution that had red facings. There were more yellow faced regiments in AMerican than any other kind.
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Supercilius Maximus | 04 Apr 2014 11:10 a.m. PST |
Nice idea to use the QR but the OP has plastic British with plastic continentals to come, so I think he is looking for how best to use them. Actually, there's no reason he can't use the British box for the QRs. They wore "miserable contract hats" until mid-1780 (and quite possibly afterwards too, as the peakless leather caps would have been smarter but less useful in the heat and glare of the South), so the cocked or slouch hat options in the box would be fine. Alternatively, you could just cut the ridge and horsehair mane off the top of the "Saratoga" caps to leave the front plate and crown, which will give a good approximation of the QR' leather caps. Also, the waistcoat/roundabout look appears to be unique to the QR light infantry; the grenadier/battalion companies wore the same shortened regimental coats as on the plastic British. Of course you would need the Perry metals to make up the highland company, rifle section, cavalry and artillery – assuming you wanted them – but these are one-off units. As far as opponents are concerned – shave the buttonhole lace off the British and you have Lee's Legion infantry in short coats (you can use either the small-brimmed hats or the cocked hats from the Continentals box). The hunting shirt figures can be Kirkwood's company and you can buy more of the H/S sprues separately, so you can augment them without buying more boxes. |
Redcoat 55 | 05 Apr 2014 7:09 a.m. PST |
The 33rd had bastian lace so they look pretty distinctive unless you are doing them without lace. The 53rd Foot also was in America with red facings and square lace. |
MajorB | 05 Apr 2014 9:40 a.m. PST |
The 53rd Foot also was in America with red facings and square lace. Oops! Yes, you are right. And also the 59th had red facings. |