| LORDGHEE | 03 Apr 2014 10:10 a.m. PST |
How much ammo did Glider troops have with them when they landed. The information for the mortars sections is what I am really looking for. I assume that all nations had about the same. Thanks |
| Jemima Fawr | 03 Apr 2014 10:24 a.m. PST |
I seem to remember seeing some actual glider loadouts on the Pegasus Archive website, if that's any help? |
| Gary Kennedy | 03 Apr 2014 11:35 a.m. PST |
Best I can offer is for a British Air Landing Bn, and then only a snippet from some 1944 documents that were gifted to me. For the 3-inch Mortar Platoon, consisting of four weapons, the total rounds available was 264 HE, so 66 per tube. There should be separate totals for the two 3-in mortars with Coy HQ, but they seem to be put in with the Mortar Pl totals and are likewise 66 rounds per tube. Given the propensity for British Air Landing Bns to fiddle and faddle with their authorised WE until they found something they liked, I'd take that as a snapshot only. I'd also reckon that figures were somewhat different for US Glider Inf, and if you're going back to early war German glider troops, then good luck! Gary |
| MajorB | 03 Apr 2014 12:01 p.m. PST |
Enough so that you probably don't need to worry about it in most wargames. |
| LORDGHEE | 03 Apr 2014 1:06 p.m. PST |
Really 66 rounds or 11 minutes!
U.S. Para was 54.
Thanks for the help keep the information coming |
| zoneofcontrol | 03 Apr 2014 1:38 p.m. PST |
The "Bayonet Strength" website has a listing for Air Landing Battalion. See link: link As mentioned in the linked info, the loads and armaments varied mission to mission. I looked in my copy of Histoire & Collections copy of "D-Day Paratroopers: UK." They have a typical load for a parachute section but show them all with Stens. I thought many carried rifles. Anyway, the book says the Sten troopers carried 7 x 30 round magazines plus 1 x Bren magazine. The Bren Gunner carried 4 x Bren magazines. The Bren Group leader and the assistant each carried 5 x Bren magazines. Since the book does not include info on rifle carrying troopers, I don't know what to add. The listing does also state 1 x grenade each but I know how resourceful troops can be before going in to battle. Please note that the D-Day Paratroopers book does conflict itself. It lists the Sten with both a 30-round mag. and also a 32-round mag. It also lists the rifle as having both a 5-round and a 10-round clip. Some guidance but also some confusion. |
| Veteran Cosmic Rocker | 03 Apr 2014 2:20 p.m. PST |
At a slight tangent – my father worked with a chap who was with the gliders – he lost an eye during the war and his party trick was taking out his glass eye and putting it on a colleagues plate during lunch and asking them to "keep an eye on it" for him – as a young lad I was in awe of him and I do remember him saying that they went into action with never enough ammo and had to be quite sparing until they received munition drops. I also remember him telling me about landing near an asylum and as the troops were clearing away from the gliders the hospital inmates were wandering around amongst the troops – so whilst my memory now is not so good (I can't remember his name, which is a great shame) I'm guessing he was referring to the incident depicted in a Bridge Too Far |
 Legion 4  | 03 Apr 2014 4:22 p.m. PST |
All troops have a standard basic ammo load, then and today … And when the shooting starts, no one has enough ammo. Then resupply procedures become very important. It was not rare that troops would take ammo off the KIAs and WIAs[that can't shoot] or even pick up enemy weapons … |
| Lion in the Stars | 03 Apr 2014 6:17 p.m. PST |
All troops have a standard basic ammo load, then and today … And when the shooting starts, no one has enough ammo. Then resupply procedures become very important. It was not rare that troops would take ammo off the KIAs and WIAs[that can't shoot] or even pick up enemy weapons … Or, heaven forbid, an embedded journalist picks up a weapon! |
| Martin Rapier | 03 Apr 2014 11:20 p.m. PST |
66 rounds is indeed 11 minutes firing, but that is true of all ww2 weapons. A rifle company could fire off its entire ammunition load in ten minutes. They didn't (and don't) because that is what fire discipline is for. |
| Andy P | 04 Apr 2014 4:31 a.m. PST |
The support company mortars had a "Blitz Buggy" platoon which had 6x jeeps and x6 trailers.(KOSB) You can get on average x4, 3" mortar packs on a jeep bonnet load, (12x rounds) plus what ever you can stuff into the jeep body and associated trailer. As far as the handcart moratr platoons i do have some information some where from the Border Regt which goes into loading's i will dig it out. As far as 2" mortar..from platoon HQ.
No 1 Mrtr Rifle No 1 - - - 50 - Mortar * & 6 bombs *
No 2 Mrtr Rifle No 1 - - - 50 - 12 bombs *
A. Tk Rifleman Rifle No 1 - - - 50 1* A. Tk Rifle & 20 rounds*
2 snipers (each) Rifle No 4 1 1 1 59 - Can carry mrtr bombs & assist A.Tk Rifleman. Telescopic Sights*
Load Handcarts
No1 (Drawn by men of section)
BOTTOM LAYER (Pl Stores) lbs lbs 1,000 Rds Reserve S.A.A * 76
48 Cartridge Signal 8
12 Bombs Mortar Signal 30
24 Bombs Mortar Smoke 60
Rations (23 Men, 1 day) 92
6 Sandbads 270 TOP LAYER (Section Stores) 2 L.M.Gs with Mags on 58
6 prs Utility Pouches – 36 mags 114
2 prs Utility Pouches – 4 grenades 68 in each 19
2 prs Utility Pouches – 2 mags and 2 grenades 68 in each 30 216 TOTAL LOAD 490 approx
Load Handcarts (Cont'd) No 2 (Drawn by men of Pl HQ) BOTTOM LAYER lbs lbs Approx 1,400 rds reserve S.A.A * )
? rds Sten Ammunition ) ) 130
80 rds A.Tk Ammunition (20 in tin box in mags) ) 36 Grenades No 75 )
5 " No 68 ) ) 50
20 " No 69 )
48 Cartridges Signal ) No 38 Wireless Set 14
Rations (23 Men, 1 day) 92
6 Sandbags 390 TOP LAYER A. Tk Rifle 36
1 pr Utility Pouches (20 rds A.Tk rifle ammn) 10
Mortar 2" 24
18 Bombs Smoke 45
Telescopic Sights 2 Snipers rifles 115 TOTAL LOAD 505 Approx * Box cut for fixed line L.M.G |
| Bellbottom | 04 Apr 2014 7:03 a.m. PST |
AFAIK it was standard proceedure for Airborne troops of all nations (and still is) to be trained on enemy weapons, mainly due to the difficulties of ammo resupply |
| Legion 4 | 04 Apr 2014 10:25 a.m. PST |
We were trained with the AK47 in the 101 … But I was in other Infantry units, and many cross-trained as well … I served in both Light(101) and Mech Inf units. Light Infantry can only carry so much as they are generally dismounted. With ammo and water being priority. Now with Mech, you'd surprised how much stuff (ammo being priority) you can stick in/on an M113 … |
| immersedsoul | 04 Apr 2014 12:19 p.m. PST |
At even more of an tangent….in response to Veteran Cosmic Rocker…..the asylum was in the small village called Wolfheze. The field were the Gliderstroops landed on the 17th of september 1944 were right next to it and on both sides of the railway.
I know the area quite well as i give each year guided tours and if any the people on TMP are interested let me know. |
| Andy P | 07 Apr 2014 5:24 a.m. PST |
OK i checked my vast range of docs carefully stored in a box in my wardrobe over weekend.
I found a list from 1st Borders which states their Mortar platoon carried 462 rounds 3" HE per detachment. |
| Gary Kennedy | 07 Apr 2014 12:36 p.m. PST |
Andy, can I just ask if I'm understanding that as per actual mortar? If so it's a bloody lot of ammo (over 5500 rounds?)! I have the normal Inf Bn Mortar Pl with 66 rounds per carrier, plus 90 in the Sec 15-cwt, plus a Bn reserve of 270 (grand total 936 by my reckoning). The original (1942) WE for an Air Landing Bn had an ammunition table, which gives 102 rounds per 3-in mortar (total 1224), plus a Bn reserve of 648, for a grand total of 1872 rounds. No indication of a split between HE and smoke. Gary |
