Tgunner | 29 Mar 2014 1:30 p.m. PST |
We're talking a company – skirmish force. Something that reflects the current Russian force that is on Ukraine's border right now. Should it be motor rifles? VDV? T-80s or T-64s? BMP-2s or BMP-3s? QRF or Command Decision? Both? Assume that we're using Eureka Russians as infantry since that is what I have. So say 1-3 tanks (a platoon or so) with an infantry platoon, or two, and maybe a scout vehicle. A nice, balanced skirmish force for say Bolt Action or Force on Force. |
Generalstoner49 | 29 Mar 2014 1:37 p.m. PST |
I think in terms of bolt action since it is what I play. We do 28mm but in 15mm you have room for more so here goes. 3 T-80's 10 BMP-2's Full motor rifle company and a command element supported by a tank platoon. I would think a VDV company would be transported in BTR's or BMD's supported by T-80's ax well. |
Tgunner | 29 Mar 2014 1:42 p.m. PST |
Which version of the BTR? Are they still using 80s? I've always had a thing for wheels. |
Generalstoner49 | 29 Mar 2014 2:18 p.m. PST |
80A, the one with the 30mm cannon. |
Daniel S | 29 Mar 2014 2:20 p.m. PST |
Old BTR-80's are still in use together with the BTR-82AM which is an BTR-80 upgrade based on the BTR-82A. (Unsure if the upgrade simply adds the new turret or if it improves the protection level as well. BTR-82A:
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Tgunner | 29 Mar 2014 2:45 p.m. PST |
I don't think anyone has there out. So I'll stick with BTR-80s. They're good enough plus they'll be a nice counter point to my Strykers. I think I'll go with two platoons and a command vehicle and maybe a tank or two. |
Generalstoner49 | 29 Mar 2014 3:02 p.m. PST |
BRDM's for recon would work as well. |
Mako11 | 29 Mar 2014 3:12 p.m. PST |
I seem to recall people mentioning most of the tanks were T-72s, but not sure if that is still true, or not. So, 4 x T-72s or T-80s – pick your favorite variant from TV clips, pics, etc., and 10 – 13 x BTR=80As (or BTR-82A/AM, as mentioned above). The unit of BTRs I saw the other day appeared to have 13 of them. Interestingly, one company I saw the other day was lead by an old BTR-60U command vehicle. I believe Eureka has ultra-modern Russian troops available in this scale. Not sure if anyone else does them. |
Porkmann | 29 Mar 2014 3:26 p.m. PST |
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GeoffQRF | 29 Mar 2014 4:00 p.m. PST |
If you want to do the whole thing in 1:1, I'm sure we can come to some arrangement :-) We have the BTR-80 and BTR-80A. The BTR-82 changes are fundamentally internal or not massively different in this scale (improved armour, spall liners, more modern night vision device) |
Space Monkey | 29 Mar 2014 4:18 p.m. PST |
I thought the OP wanted an army of Putin
like every soldier is Putin himself. Which now has me wondering if there is an available figure of the guy. Might be nice to stick him in a tank or two. |
Tgunner | 29 Mar 2014 4:20 p.m. PST |
So what should I get Geoff? You're probably going to be the fellow who gets my cash. What would be a nice mix of vehicles that could reflect what a regular Russian motor rifle unit going into Ukraine for what if games? |
Tgunner | 29 Mar 2014 4:24 p.m. PST |
Go get the Eurekas Kyote. They are great castings. I'm using Rebel Minis US for USMCs and QRFs for the Army. Rebels look like the have M16A3 whereas the QRFs look like they are armed with M4 carbines. |
Mako11 | 29 Mar 2014 4:50 p.m. PST |
Do the Eureka figs have the American-style helmet, or will we be wanting Americans carrying AKs? |
GeoffQRF | 29 Mar 2014 5:15 p.m. PST |
Correct, our modern US are armed with M4, at the moment. As far as what if, I'd go with T-80s and BTR-80s myself. Or BMDs if you want to do airborne. |
Porkmann | 29 Mar 2014 5:26 p.m. PST |
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Tgunner | 29 Mar 2014 5:59 p.m. PST |
I've been trying to get Geoff to make a figure of Putin riding a shark. I guess several of them could be a cavalry unit
Of sorts. Then BTRS and T-80s it is. Eureka does have Eastern Europe troops on their 300 Club but there are no descriptions of them. It's at 500 now and I'm planning to jump in for 40. 60 more left gents and we're in. |
Mako11 | 29 Mar 2014 7:01 p.m. PST |
This one might work:
A poor photoshop image, but it gets the point across.
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Mako11 | 29 Mar 2014 7:35 p.m. PST |
Tgunner, I believe the ultra-modern Russian set has already been released, but perhaps they were in another scale than 15mm. Not sure what the Eastern Euro troops 300 kickstarter is for. |
Tgunner | 30 Mar 2014 5:13 a.m. PST |
Mako- they are out and I have a weak platoon of them. I plan to add to them at Historicon and build them up to two or so full platoons. I think the Eastern Euros are in Western kit but are carrying AKs. |
MaahisKuningas90 | 30 Mar 2014 12:47 p.m. PST |
AFAIK, T-80s are in war-time reserve now – all active formations are equipped with either T-72B (or sub-variant – most likely B3 being the latest in spearhead formations) or with T-90. Also, BTR-80A to conversion BTR-82A aint that simple – new type (/variant) of turret was adopted to 82A, main difference being it is equipped with stabilizer, and enchanced armor protection = differs in shape. BTR-82A:
BTR-80A:
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PSADennis | 30 Mar 2014 7:10 p.m. PST |
For what its worth I just got an order from QRF on Saturday in my mailbox. I am always amazed at how large Geoff's Post WWII and Modern offerings are. I really love the Hind's and the Russian SP artillery that I ordered. I am one happy customer. Thanks Geoff!!! Dennis |
GeoffQRF | 31 Mar 2014 4:14 a.m. PST |
Thank you. We do our best. |
GeoffQRF | 31 Mar 2014 6:04 a.m. PST |
Those turrets look pretty similar to me. There are a lot of photo sources stating BTR-82 and showing BTR-80A, and vice versa. BTR-82A:
BTR-80A from a similar angle:
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Heinz Good Aryan | 31 Mar 2014 7:26 a.m. PST |
most of the btrs i'm seeing pictures of in the present crisis are the ones with the little turret, the original one. i don't think i've seen more than one or two of the btrs with the space age turret
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GeoffQRF | 31 Mar 2014 7:35 a.m. PST |
most of the btrs i'm seeing pictures of in the present crisis are the ones with the little turret Correct: YouTube link YouTube link
These are BTR-80s, not BTR-80As (the BTR-70 had a sloped down back and exhaust) |
MarescialloDiCampo | 31 Mar 2014 7:49 a.m. PST |
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Ron W DuBray | 31 Mar 2014 8:50 a.m. PST |
If I had to drive one of the BTRs the first thing I would do is weld 6 more door layers on the front hull window door thing. What is it a whole 1/2 inch thick??? as is I think a M2 would make a quick kill on one of them from the front and not even need AP ammo. |
LORDGHEE | 31 Mar 2014 1:23 p.m. PST |
Advance company 3 mortorcycles 1 BMP recon 3 T-72 1 AEV or ARV 11 BTRA- 80A (plus infantry) 1 So 152 (for strong points) 1 AA Vechile |
Rod I Robertson | 31 Mar 2014 1:56 p.m. PST |
Tgunner: You need a road opening detachment so a motorifle company in either 10 BTR 80's or 10 BMPs. A platoon of 4 T-80's or T-90's. To this add some BRDM scout cars and some SAM armed BRDM's and perhaps some ATGW armed BRDMs if you opt for the BTRs. Finally you will need a squad or upto a platoon of engineers with road opening equipment who will likely be in either BTRs or MTLBs with heavier equipment accompanying them. The Ukranian foes your Putin Force will likely face will have BTR 60's or BTR 70's and T-72 or upgraded T-84 tanks. Good gaming and cheers! Rod Robertson |
MaahisKuningas90 | 31 Mar 2014 3:05 p.m. PST |
Those turrets look pretty similar to me. There are a lot of photo sources stating BTR-82 and showing BTR-80A, and vice versa. Yes, as similiar like, lets say, T-72A versus T-72Bs turret. Indeed there is a lot of misidentified BTR-80As, but as I said, from the front of the turret, you can quite easily tell which variant it is. Also, in most BTR-82As, there is equipment container on deck, behind the turret. BTR-80A turret is called BPPU, and though propably not official name, finnish armoured brigades guild-magazine identified the BTR-82/82As turret as BPPU-M, and thats the name Im going to use now. Though BPPU base is quite round, its having small "gap" in its shape in front where smooth and angled "glacis" is located, large picture of BTR-80A where clearly visible:
In BPPU-M, the overall shape of turret base is "completely" round, without the gap, plus new sight added and where BPPUs front is heavily angled, BPPU-M is more upright. Also, small difference in scale, but in top of the gun there is square-shaped protected box instead of IR-searchlight, housing (propably) rangefinder. In addition, there is some "supporting" armour in left-hand side of the turret, where MG/AGL mount is located, and in where BPPU is having a gap when round turns to upstraight. Few pictures – sadly not so great in quality:
Quite small ones, but you can easily see the overall shape from these.
Larger pictures – AFAIK this was some sort of pre-production vehicle for marketing purposes, but I might remember wrong.
Last but not least, small picture but different angle. @ Ron: Please note that its APC, not IFV. The cannon-armed A-version can be employed in similiar roles in terms of firesupport and heavy suppression, but in scenario where you would be fired by actuall AC, you would be screwed anyway, no matter would you have extra-layers in window flaps or not.. From frontal arc it is resistant (and from 200+ meters, according to officials, immune) against 12,7 and 360 protection against long 7.62R.
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