"Fire! I repeat, fire!" Topic

For those of you who play regiment based games, when it comes to breech loaders and then repeating firearms, how do you allow for this in your rules?

I use an adaptation of Featherstone's rules, where I still roll one die per six figures (conveniently enough the number of figures I have per infantry movement tray), but add 2 to the result for breech loaders and 3 for repeating carbines/ rifles to reflect the much higher rate of fire.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Anyone else got any ideas?

Roll more dice.

Maj Bumsore,

Um… yeah…

So… A tray of figures armed with Springfield or similar roll a die. A tray with figures armed with Spencer rifles rolls seven dice, a tray with figures armed with Henry rifles rolls sixteen dice?

Effective I'll grant you, maybe too effective, but hardly elegant. :-)

Why would you roll sixteen dice?

Muzzle loaders: 1 die

Breech loader: 2

Repeaters: 3

Multiple dice will give you a bell curve ranging from really crappy volleys to very effectice volleys. Adding modifers takes away or reduces the chance of ineffective volleys.

Reroll 1's or reroll 1's and 2's

The upper limit of "kills" is still the same (so things don't get too out of control) but the better weapons are more likely to achieve the higher number of kills.

ould that work for you?

I generally do "volleys" as suggested in Don's rules. 5 figures gets a die. I deduct 1 for melee, 2 for short range, 3 for medium range and 4 for long range.

Adding 1 for repeaters and breach loaders sounds reasonable. I'm not sure I'd go beyond that. A breach loader clearly fires faster than a muzzle loader and can fire contently at a steady pace. I repeater can fire faster than a breach loader but will suffer significant downtime for reloading.

I may take longer to reload a repeater but if you figure that not many units would take seven volleys without pulling back, there would usually be enough time to reload. I do not see in the historical record that repaeter armed units got caught reloading, I expect that it would take 20-45 seconds to reload 7 rounds depending on your training and if you were caught mid load you could just fire what you have reloaded by that time.

The major issue noted was the amount of ammo they had to carry and the cost of all those bullets.

In my rules I just add a positive modifer to the "to hit" roll. It's also much easier for them to run out of ammo.

In my own rules, I simply increase or decrease the overall "power" rating of the unit. It's similar to attack/defense ratings.

For both sides in the ACW, infantry almost universally employed "fire by files" within each company. On occasion, an initial battalion/regimental volley might be fired, but after that each company began firing by files and it would continue until the command to "cease fire" was given. This kept up a continuous, desultory fire upon the enemy.

Longer to reload a repeater? Well… maybe… but how much longer than loading an 1861 Springfield does it take to change the tube magazine in a Spencer? Although it should take a little longer to reload a Henry, I think. Although having said that, one of the first tasks we had to master in Weapons Training was to hand load 20 rounds into an SLR magazine in 30 seconds.

I would expect breechloaders and repeaters to have a higher rate of fire at close range and in moments of desperation, but at longer ranges the rate of fire would even out a bit. High rates of fire are not sustainable for obvious reasons. In WW1 riflemen could load a round at a time and keep the clip in reserve.

Well, reloading the Spencer was a more time-consuming task when it was first issued. There were no purpose-built cartridge boxes initially, so when the tube magazine was empty, it needed to be withdrawn and refilled.

Originally, a cartridge box similar to the M1855 series was designed and issued. This box was worn on the waistbelt (no provision for sling was made) and had space for several pasteboard boxes, each holding 7 rounds.

In 1864, Erastus Blakeslee, of the 1st CT Cavalry, designed a box that held a number of pre-loaded tubes. Eventually, it was patented in December of 1864, and models were made that held between 6 and 12 tubes. It was issued by the federal government beginning in 1865.

So not until the Spring of 1865 would Spencer armed troops have a much increased rate of fire, overall. Prior to the last campaigns, although the 7 rounds could be expended in about 18 seconds, there would be quite a lull in overall fire until the magazine tube could be withdrawn, a packet of 7 rounds pulled from the box, opened, and the rounds placed end-first down the magazine tube, and the tube replaced in the weapon.

What happened was that units issued with Spencers had to learn a whole new concept of fire discipline in order to have an overall rate of fire that would prevent an opponent from taking advantage of the longer reloading time.

FWIW, Many federal units, including the 4th & 7th Maine, who were armed with rifles such as the M1841 Windsor, etc, were, by Chancellorsville, issued a water-proof combustible cartridge that slid easily down the barrel. In his remarks at the dedication of the 4th Maine's monument at Gettysburg, the Colonel stated that those cartridges made his regiment's rifles the equivalent of breechloaders.

Depends on the rules. Are you using or planing to use your own house rules? Check out JR2, JR3, MLW and see how they handle it. I wouldn't give the repeater a penalty for firing while prone but again this should be address in whatever rules you're using. If your rules don't cover it then get a new set of rules.

Reloading issues depends on the weapon, Spencer or Henry. Never heard of it being much of a problem though.

My take: breach-loaders and repeating rifles in the hands on average troops mainly give a defensive bonus against charges. I'd give them a +1 or +2 when defending. I have not read accounts of such troops beating up the enemy in long range fire fights or when attacking. I have read numerous accounts of such troops repulsing attacks handily.

In the hands of specialists they can do such things, but such troops were usually spread around in small groups, best represented by skirmishes.