"Bashi Bazouks" Topic

Hi all,

Would the Bashi Bazouk cavalry units used by the Egyptians during the Sudan campaigns have used lances (or modified lances like the British Hussars after El Teb)?

I know the source info is pretty scant, but any help would be appreciated!

Ryan

No, at least I've never seen a bit of evidence for it.

Remember, Bashi's were not really "military" units in Egypt. Rather, they were mercenaries/armed tax collectors for the government, and had a free rein to do much as they pleased--so long as they delivered revenue.

The lance by its very nature is an offensive weapon, and except for local revolts, Bashi's were never expected to take on formed troops in actual battles. And the lance is an inconvenient accessory when all you need to extort taxes from riverine Arabs is the threat of a sword cut from horseback, and perhaps a brace of pistols in one's belt.

Or, to put it another way, at best the Bashi's could be called "warriors," but never "Soldiers."

TVAG

I've never read anything that would lead me to believe they carried lances.

Getting them to show up for a battle, let alone obey orders, is a major accomplishment.
That's why I am in the process of finishing up 48 of them.

Really sort of armed criminal gangs -their main forte was committing atrocities, mainly against civilians.
I'm sure I read somewhere they usually fought on foot rather than mounted although that was in the context of the Russo Turkish War of 1877.

That's the spirit, John.

Now now gentlemen…let's not cast our nets too widely. While the bashi's overall record was pretty bad, some units did fight well in the circumstances, particulary before the Hicks' disaster.

While there are quite a few contemporary descriptions of bashis, like 79thPA, I've never heard or seen a reference to lances. No question many of the bashis fought on foot. However, there are references to mounted bashis, although as many historians have pointed out, these mounted types may have been other irregulars/tribals in the pay of the Government.

Like John, I'm planning on fielding lots of bashis, bazingers and other auxiliary types together with Egyptian regulars and gendarmes in my early Sudan project. Will make a nice change from the usual Camel Corps crowd….;-)

K

Not everyone can be the Black Watch, or the Grenadier Guards.
Sometimes we have to be the "Bless Their Little Hearts" guys.

I've seen pictures of pistols, long muskets and sabers, and heard of whips, but not lances.

Grelber

"While the bashi's overall record was pretty bad, some units did fight well in the circumstances"-Alcibiades

When cornered like rats with no hope of parlay or pardon.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm also all for giving "the little guy" a go on the tabletop!

There are Bashi Bazouks available in 1:72 (which is the scale I'm doing my Sudan War stuff in):

link

But they don't really fit the image given in the Go Strong into the Desert book, so I am going to use these, as the uniform seems a lot closer:

link

I suppose I can convert some of the figures, as fortunately there are a lot of ring hands, and use some of them as standard bearers, so it's not all bad

Ryan

Bashi Bazouks in an illustration of troop types of the Hicks Pasha Expedition to Sudan, 1883

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Thanks Druzhina.

There's a copy of that image in the Go Strong into the Sudan book, and it has lead me to use these:

as they are the closest I can find in 1:72!

Cool! What maskes are these figures?

Smokey,

The blue figures are from Strelets, the red ones are Emhar Zouaves : link

Thank you!