Wyatt the Odd | 23 Mar 2014 9:50 p.m. PST |
Hi all - After I get done with my surprise British units (the fact that I have British units is the surprise), I'll be going back to finishing up my T-34 horde. In light of recent real-world events (and mostly in a fit of pique), I've decided that these T-34/76s and T-34/85s should be portrayed as a Ukrainian unit. I am certain that Uncle rasPutin is heartbroken over this snub, but there you go. My impression is that the Red army units were pretty much indistinguishable from each other except for when they got guards designation and were able to paint heroic-looking emblems on their turrets, etc. But, since I am a mere enlightened amateur, I would like to hear if there are any WW2 Ukrainian armored units of note – and if so, were there any distinguishing markings, paint jobs, etc. At worst, they could become the 3-й ненавмисному Герої полк* Спасибі! *3rd Accidental Heroes Regiment |
Jemima Fawr | 23 Mar 2014 10:56 p.m. PST |
I remember seeing photos of T-35/85s with slogans in a Ukrainian script that's different to Cyrillic. Certainly makes them stand out. |
(Stolen Name) | 23 Mar 2014 11:44 p.m. PST |
Sorry do not know of any Ukrainian units but you could do Poles wio.ru/tank/sov-pol34.htm or Czechs wio.ru/tank/sov-cz.htm but as Ukraine was still technically part of the Soviet Union in 1944 I am not sure there would be any distinguishing marks apart from the slogans already mentioned |
Martin Rapier | 24 Mar 2014 4:01 a.m. PST |
Yes, Ukraine (and Belarus, Georgia, Uzbekistan etc) were all republics in the USSR. Having said thsat, just look up one of the numerous Mech Corps stationed in the Kiev military district and pick one of those as your 'Ukrainian' unit. The only actual Ukrainian units in WW2 were nationalist partisans who seemed to fight pretty well eveyone who came into their patch impartially. They didn't have many Tank Corps though. |
Frederick | 24 Mar 2014 8:10 a.m. PST |
Pretty much all the "national" formations in the Red Army had standard Red Army kit with maybe a shoulder patch to tell them apart – the Ukrainians have been pretty much integrated into the Russian military since before the Seven Years War |
Griefbringer | 24 Mar 2014 1:39 p.m. PST |
I remember seeing photos of T-35/85s with slogans in a Ukrainian script that's different to Cyrillic. As far as I know, Ukrainian language uses a version of Cyrillic alphabet that is very close to the version used for Russian language. Unless you are familiar with Cyrillic, the differences are not likely to be easy to spot. That said, there were other languages in former Soviet Union with more distinctive scripts – Georgian language comes immediately to my mind. Not sure if there were any Georgian tank units, but since Stalin was a Georgian you could use that as an excuse to field a Georgian guards heavy tank regiment equipped with IS tanks. |
Mark Plant | 25 Mar 2014 2:09 a.m. PST |
"but since Stalin was a Georgian" Stalin was a Georgian in the same way that Arnold Schwarzenegger is an Austrian. A mere accident of birth, quickly rectified. |
WarpSpeed | 25 Mar 2014 11:49 a.m. PST |
Best thing about current situation is seeing old men rallying round a red banner and saying"remember we were brothers!" |
Wyatt the Odd | 28 Mar 2014 3:16 p.m. PST |
I may be getting units and fronts confused. I know there was a "Ukrainian Front" army, which was just where the thrust into Poland came from. I thought there was something like the "2nd Ukrainian Guards" or the like. Maybe I'm trying to ascribe Commonwealth-type unit designations. Wyatt |
Martin Rapier | 29 Mar 2014 2:07 a.m. PST |
Fronts were just higher command formations. The German Army Group Ukraine wasn't even in the Ukraine
, The Soviet one's were at least roughly located according to their designations. |
(Stolen Name) | 29 Mar 2014 4:31 a.m. PST |
Front contain numerous Divisions and Corps and are not related to anything but their geographical position as Martin said |
Martin Rapier | 29 Mar 2014 9:41 a.m. PST |
I was trying to find some OBs for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Ukrainian Fronts. Not much luck, but e.g. Konevs 1st Ukrainian Front in June 1944 (Lvov-Sandomierz Operation) was assigned 1st and 3rd Guards Tank Armies, 4th Tank Army, Cavalry-Mechanised Group Baranov (25th Tank Corps and 1st Guards Cavalry Corps), Cav-Mech Group Sokolov plus 13th, 38th and 60th Combined Arms Armies. There isn't anything particularly 'Ukrainian' about these units, particularly the Tank Armies which were shuffled around all over the place. The remains of the local population (who hadn't been deported or murdered by the Germans) would be conscripted into the army if they hadn't already volunteered as it advanced though. Roughly 4.5 million Ukrainians fought for the Red Army. Smaller numbers fought for the Germans, roughly a divisions worth of police battalions and 14th SS Waffen Grenadier Division 'Galizien'. The bulk of these were drawn from Galicia, which had been part of Poland until relatively recently before. Ukrainian auxiliary police battalions did not have a good record with regard to war crimes and enthusiastic participation in the Holocaust. |
Wyatt the Odd | 29 Mar 2014 2:00 p.m. PST |
Thanks for that. I'll have to look up Polish T-34 units, I guess. I doubt they used KV and IS tanks though. It was a thought, Wyatt |
Martin Rapier | 30 Mar 2014 8:57 a.m. PST |
1st Polish Army had six infantry divisions and an armoured brigade. The 1st Armoured Brigade, equipped with T34s. I am sure I have seen photos of Polish assault guns too. The Galician s were essentially Polish anyway, as are the western Ukrainians now, which of course is part of the problem. So Poles wouldn't be far off. |
AWuuuu | 30 Mar 2014 10:20 a.m. PST |
Your best bet for Ukrainian unit would be in SS. Nationalist units were fighting with Germans against Soviet Union. (Thats heavy point of Russian propaganda now) Soviets mixed units by nationality. There were no Russian Division, Georgian Division and such (except for Cossacks that lived in certain areas only). In late war especially you would see Russians, Ukrainians from liberated Ukraine and some Mongolian folk in one tank as a crew. But i would heartily recommend Polish unit :> We had T 34 76, IS -2, Su-57 Su 76, Ba 64, Su-85, Su-122 – most of the Russian kit really. And then some universal carriers.. Lots of fun.. and you can watch this cult piece of somewhat ahistoric fun :> YouTube link |
(Stolen Name) | 30 Mar 2014 3:18 p.m. PST |
Like these you mean Wyatt?
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